The Problem with the Conspiracy View of the JFK Assassination

[Lance Payette]

After I'd participated on the Ed Forum for a few months, I was struck by the dominance of those with a genuinely left-wing perspective on everything, not just the JFKA. This required no discernment on my part - it was screamingly obvious. I started a thread questioning whether the entire CT community was really just a front for a left-wing agenda, with the "JFKA debate" really just a vehicle to further that agenda. Understandably, that thread was highly unpopular. I felt like a Jehovah's Witness, or maybe a militant atheist, in a Catholic church (which led to my epiphany that the CT community is a quasi-religious one with its dogma, sacred texts, priests and deacons and all the rest).

Now we see right-wing JFKA conspiracy promoters. Despite the right-wing orientation, the agenda is really no different. As I just said on another thread, we see this all the time in the UFO/UAP community and are seeing it now. Agendas overlap or coincide and we end up with some very unlikely bedfellows. The UAP debate may be somewhat more UAP-oriented than the JFKA debate is really JFKA-oriented simply because the UAP question is far more consequential than a 62-year-old assassination, but much of the UAP debate, like virtually all of the JFKA debate, is driven by agendas having little or nothing to do with the UAP phenomenon.

I also think we cannot overlook, as CTers wish for us to do, the predominance of the conspiracy-prone mindset within the CT community. This is, I believe, a bigger factor than any left-wing orientation. This is a well-identified psychological profile, supported by a large body of professional studies and literature, and it is absurd to pretend it doesn't exist and is not predominant within the CT community. It is, as I said in another thread, the elephant in the room.

[Jon Banks]

I also think we cannot overlook, as CTers wish for us to do, the predominance of the conspiracy-prone mindset within the CT community. This is, I believe, a bigger factor than any left-wing orientation. This is a well-identified psychological profile, supported by a large body of professional studies and literature, and it is absurd to pretend it doesn't exist and is not predominant within the CT community. It is, as I said in another thread, the elephant in the room.

The Jeffrey Epstein coverup is giving a major boost to conspiracy minded people.

And there's no doubt that something is being covered up by the US government. The question is what?

Did Epstein really run a sex trafficking/blackmail operation which included prominent people and celebs having sex with minors?

Or is the coverup due to Epstein's well documented intelligence connections?

It's probable that Epstein was involved in multiple criminal conspiracies over the course of his adult life and he's yet another reminder that conspiracies do happen in the real world.

As much as I get annoyed with people who take conspiracy thinking too far, I'm equally annoyed with people who act as if people never conspire to commit crimes.

[Michael T. Griffith]

- You seem to ignore or downplay how conspiracy theories in general have become more common among Rightwingers today. Q-Anon, Pizzagate, Jewish Space Lasers, The Great Replacement theory, Obama was born in Kenya, etc are all theories that gained popularity on the Right over the past 5-10 years. So let's not pretend that conspiracy theories are exclusively a Leftwing problem.

Oh, come on. Conspiracy theories are just as common among modern liberals. Plenty of liberals have argued, many still argue, that the Russians got Trump elected in 2016, that the Republicans stole the 2000 election by conspiring with Florida state officials, that the Republicans stole the 2004 election by a massive voter-suppression conspiracy and by digitally changing/deleting thousands of votes in Ohio, that the Republicans rigged the 2018 election for governor in Georgia, that there was a "vast right-wing conspiracy" to topple Bill Clinton, that Bush invaded Iraq in 2003 knowing there were no WMDs but just to enrich defense companies and get Iraqi oil, that during Hurricane Katrina the Republicans sabotaged the levees in New Orleans that fronted the city's poor and largely black Ninth Ward to kill the residents there, etc., etc., etc.

- Prior to Trump's emergence on the political scene, the JFK assassination CT community was mostly non-partisan.

HUH? No, the JFK assassination conspiracy community was heavily left-wing long before Trump became a political figure. Most of the major researchers were left-wing: Lane, Meagher, Stone, Prouty, Weberman, Canfield, Groden, Livingstone, Ratcliffe, Osanic, Mellen, Garrison, Salandria, etc., etc., etc.

Most of the major researchers today are left-wing.

- I have long been aware of your conservative political views but still read your essays and respected your research on the Kennedy assassination in spite of our political differences.

FYI, in the 2024 general election, I supported RFK Jr. until he dropped out, and only then did I support Trump. I am more of a centrist on most issues, but I am conservative on moral issues (abortion, marriage, gender, gambling, etc.).

- Are you disappointed in the way Trump has handled the Epstein stuff?

Yes.

[Lance Payette]

It's probable that Epstein was involved in multiple criminal conspiracies over the course of his adult life and he's yet another reminder that conspiracies do happen in the real world.

"There you go," as Ronald Reagan might have said. "Probable" that Epstein was "involved in multiple criminal conspiracies" - why is that probable? Why do we not wait until we see if there is ANY evidence he was involved in ANY criminal conspiracies?

I find the whole Epstein thing tedious and boring, just life as usual at the level of the Very Rich. I hope everything is released and will find it a hoot if The Donald ends up with egg (or worse) all over his face, but my non-conspiratorial guess is that it's all going to be about a very rich guy and his cronies and their sexual proclivities and not so much about dark and sinister conspiracies.

The problem with your reference to the "real world" is that real-world conspiracies never look ANYTHING like the typical JFKA conspiracy theory.

[Jon Banks]

Oh, come on. Conspiracy theories are just as common among modern liberals. Plenty of liberals have argued, many still argue, that the Russians got Trump elected in 2016, that the Republicans stole the 2000 election by conspiring with Florida state officials, that the Republicans stole the 2004 election by a massive voter-suppression conspiracy and by digitally changing/deleting thousands of votes in Ohio, that the Republicans rigged the 2018 election for governor in Georgia, that there was a "vast right-wing conspiracy" to topple Bill Clinton, that Bush invaded Iraq in 2003 knowing there were no WMDs but just to enrich defense companies and get Iraqi oil, that during Hurricane Katrina the Republicans sabotaged the levees in New Orleans that fronted the city's poor and largely black Ninth Ward to kill the residents there, etc., etc., etc.

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not denying that there are conspiracy theories promoted by the Left. Both sides of the spectrum are guilty of conspiracy-thinking.

My point was that some of the wildest conspiracy theories of recent years have been promoted by Rightwing figures.

Q-Anon is undeniably an exclusively Rightwing conspiracy theory and that's one of the most common conspiracy theories in recent years. But of course if we expand the time frame back a decade or two, we can find lots crap to pin on the Left exclusively.

HUH? No, the JFK assassination conspiracy community was heavily left-wing long before Trump became a political figure. Most of the major researchers were left-wing: Lane, Meagher, Stone, Prouty, Weberman, Canfield, Groden, Livingstone, Ratcliffe, Osanic, Mellen, Garrison, Salandria, etc., etc., etc.

Most of the major researchers today are left-wing.

Again, you misunderstood my point.

I'm aware and have mentioned that most of the prominent first generation JFK researchers were Left-leaning but partisan politics rarely played a role in their commentary about the Kennedy assassination.

When I described the JFK research community pre-Trump as "non-partisan", I meant that political partisanship rarely came up or wasn't a major factor in online discussions. There have always been Lefties and Righties on both sides of the debate (CT and LN).

The difference today is that it's more common now to see JFK researchers inject contemporary partisan politics into their commentary in a way that I don't recall being done frequently before Trump entered the national political scene. 

And in Congress, sadly, Democrats appear disinterested in the JFK assassination hearings while Republicans in Congress are expressing interest and seem to approach the topic in good faith.

From my POV, those are the ways partisan politics have changed discussions about the Kennedy assassination.

[Jon Banks]

"There you go," as Ronald Reagan might have said. "Probable" that Epstein was "involved in multiple criminal conspiracies" - why is that probable? Why do we not wait until we see if there is ANY evidence he was involved in ANY criminal conspiracies?

The problem with your reference to the "real world" is that real-world conspiracies never look ANYTHING like the typical JFKA conspiracy theory.

I doubt we'll ever get the full story from the US govt. The truth of Epstein's crimes will be have to be pieced together via witness accounts and documents.

Most of the public's focus is on Epstein's creepy involvement with underage women but based on public information alone, the evidence that he was involved with money laundering, gun running, espionage, and more is overwhelming.

For example, it's well documented that Epstein was working with Adnan Khashoggi and Robert Maxwell in the 1980s during Iran-Contra.

Khashoggi was a Saudi tycoon whose arms dealing included trafficking arms to the Iranians during Iran-Contra.

Maxwell was a media mogul in the UK but also a spy for Israel (and the father of Ghislaine).

The fact that Epstein was working with men like that during Iran-Contra links him to real world criminal and intelligence conspiracies.

Inexplicably, super wealthy people like Lex Wexner, the founder of Victoria Secret transferred hundreds of millions of dollars to Epstein. No one knows why but I can't think of many honest reasons for those types of wealth transfers.

We also don't know why five Israeli prime ministers met with Epstein dozens of times.

So yes, there are probably several real world conspiracies involving Epstein. The sex stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.