Tippit Shooting 1:15-1:16

[Bill Brown]

Oh, please...Get out of your own way.
I'm talking about this "...rolling them with his hand.." SG would not be able to see from that distance.

Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.

Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.

Mr. BALL. He had it up?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; he had it up just like this.

Mr. BALL. How was he kicking them out?
Mr. GUINYARD. He was rolling them with his hand--with his thumb.

Mr. BALL. Rolling them with his thumb?
Mr. GUINYARD. Checking them--he had the pistol up just like this [indicating].

Mr. BALL. Did he use his left hand any?
Mr. GUINYARD. No; I never did see him use his left hand.

Mr. BALL. He didn't?
Mr. GUINYARD. No, sir.

  Once again, you make some other argument and have it out with yourself.

You claim what Guinyard could and could not see, even though he is telling you what he saw.  You're a fool.

[Michael Capasse]

You're a fool.

I know resorting to name calling only weakens an argument and undermines credibility. Still a weapon of choice, absent adequate proof.

You claim what Guinyard could and could not see, even though he is telling you what he saw.

I simply don't believe him. I don't think Joseph Ball did either.

The Commission didn’t place much significance on "his shells" or his location. Otherwise, we would have a clear image or map, similar to Callaway.
Only SG is quoted, “...rolling them with his hand--with his thumb." I question his ability to see it that distance. Nothing supports this account.
Even the attorney reacts in a very ho-hum manner, without basic pursuit of; How many did he see? When did he reload? Where exactly along Patton?.

If as you incorrectly suggest, SG had seen the killer simply “throw down shell casings...”, why didn't he point them out to Benevides while
he was following him around and DB was collecting the shells? - Why not confirm the number DB found from SG? Why not ask exactly where?
Dom was clear, he knew precisely where the casings landed and went straight to them. He told CBS, he found three. Gerald Hill testified, "...3 spent jackets..."

Guinyard on the other hand, said Dom picked up all the empty hulls from the gun. Benevides as stated, "I knew where they was at..."
So, when did SG inform DB of what HE supposedly saw as he followed Dom around? At the very least, these two should corroborate count. Ball never asked.
In addition to the number of shots, type of hull vs. bullet, shells "found" later, along with the count of each, has presented a significant mess since 1963.

Sam Guinyard saw the killer fleeing the scene, and there’s no credible reason to believe he saw anything else.

[Jake Maxwell]

Tippit was possibly killed to silence him... he knew too much...

[Lance Payette]

Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.

Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.

Mr. BALL. He had it up?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; he had it up just like this.

Mr. BALL. How was he kicking them out?
Mr. GUINYARD. He was rolling them with his hand--with his thumb.

Mr. BALL. Rolling them with his thumb?
Mr. GUINYARD. Checking them--he had the pistol up just like this [indicating].

What was that even supposed to mean, I wonder? With a revolver, you simply open the cylinder, push the ejector rod, and all the shells pop out at once. The whole operation takes 2-3 seconds. What was "rolling them with his thumb" supposed to mean?

You would only empty the revolver if you were going to reload it - but right there, on the run?

The revolver held six shells and was fully loaded when Oswald was arrested, at least according to the WC. Was it not fully loaded before he shot Tippit? If it was, he would still have had two live rounds and seemingly little need to eject empties on the run.

The WC noted that, if one merely wants to eject empties, he can simply swing out the cylinder and the live rounds will fall into his hand, whereupon the empties can be ejected with the ejector rod - but again, what sense would this make for someone fleeing a murder scene?

I admittedly lack a Ph.D. in Tippit Studies, but it does all seem a bit mysterious.

[Tim Nickerson]

What was that even supposed to mean, I wonder? With a revolver, you simply open the cylinder, push the ejector rod, and all the shells pop out at once. The whole operation takes 2-3 seconds. What was "rolling them with his thumb" supposed to mean?

You would only empty the revolver if you were going to reload it - but right there, on the run?

The revolver held six shells and was fully loaded when Oswald was arrested, at least according to the WC. Was it not fully loaded before he shot Tippit? If it was, he would still have had two live rounds and seemingly little need to eject empties on the run.

The WC noted that, if one merely wants to eject empties, he can simply swing out the cylinder and the live rounds will fall into his hand, whereupon the empties can be ejected with the ejector rod - but again, what sense would this make for someone fleeing a murder scene?

I admittedly lack a Ph.D. in Tippit Studies, but it does all seem a bit mysterious.

Oswald was unable to remove the shells from the revolver by using the ejector rod. At least one of the shells had expanded and split, making the ejector unusable in removing the shells. FBI Firearms Lab Specialist Cortlandt Cunningham experienced the same problem with the revolver.

Mr. EISENBERG. We are going-to get into that. This is a difficult question which you are going to have to make a decision on. So I would rather develop that slowly.
I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.

[Charles Collins]

Oswald was unable to remove the shells from the revolver by using the ejector rod. At least one of the shells had expanded and split, making the ejector unusable in removing the shells. FBI Firearms Lab Specialist Cortlandt Cunningham experienced the same problem with the revolver.

Mr. EISENBERG. We are going-to get into that. This is a difficult question which you are going to have to make a decision on. So I would rather develop that slowly.
I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.

That would help to explain why LHO apparently fumbled around while unloading the revolver and scattered the empty shells as he departed the murder scene. I already knew about the different calibers but had not seen this splitting case issue before. Thanks, I learned something new today!

[Michael Capasse]

That would help to explain why LHO apparently fumbled around while unloading the revolver and scattered the empty shells as he departed the murder scene. I already knew about the different calibers but had not seen this splitting case issue before. Thanks, I learned something new today!

  ...not what Guinyard claimed to see.