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Author Topic: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans  (Read 769 times)

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #16 on: Today at 03:39:30 AM »
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Buell Frazier testified at the Shaw trial in February of 1969...

Q: Mr. Frazier, have you been in the Armed Services of the United States?
A: Yes, sir, I have.
Q: What branch of the Service?
A: Army.
Q: Were you in the Infantry?
A: Yes, sir, I have had Infantry training.
Q: Did you have any rifle training?
A: Yes, sir, I did.
Q: During the course of that training did you ever have occasion to break a rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, quite frequently.
Q: What kind of rifle did you use in the Service?
A: An M14.
Q: Approximately how long was the M14 that you used?
A: I believe the correct length is 30 some odd inches long?
Q: 30 something inches long?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ever break that rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, I broke it down many times.

The M-14 is over 44 inches long.

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #16 on: Today at 03:39:30 AM »


Online Tom Graves

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #17 on: Today at 03:57:19 AM »
Buell Frazier testified at the Shaw trial in February of 1969...

Q: Mr. Frazier, have you been in the Armed Services of the United States?
A: Yes, sir, I have.
Q: What branch of the Service?
A: Army.
Q: Were you in the Infantry?
A: Yes, sir, I have had Infantry training.
Q: Did you have any rifle training?
A: Yes, sir, I did.

If it wasn't for the fact that Linnie originally told the FBI that the package was about three feet long, one would think that she and her brother had a genetic problem.
Q: During the course of that training did you ever have occasion to break a rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, quite frequently.
Q: What kind of rifle did you use in the Service?
A: An M14.
Q: Approximately how long was the M14 that you used?
A: I believe the correct length is 30 some odd inches long?
Q: 30 something inches long?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ever break that rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, I broke it down many times.

The M-14 is over 44 inches long.

If Linnie hadn't originally told the FBI that she thought the package was about three feet long, one would have to wonder if she and Buell didn't suffer from some sort of genetic problem.
« Last Edit: Today at 04:13:57 AM by Tom Graves »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #18 on: Today at 04:18:32 AM »
Buell Frazier testified at the Shaw trial in February of 1969...

Q: Mr. Frazier, have you been in the Armed Services of the United States?
A: Yes, sir, I have.
Q: What branch of the Service?
A: Army.
Q: Were you in the Infantry?
A: Yes, sir, I have had Infantry training.
Q: Did you have any rifle training?
A: Yes, sir, I did.
Q: During the course of that training did you ever have occasion to break a rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, quite frequently.
Q: What kind of rifle did you use in the Service?
A: An M14.
Q: Approximately how long was the M14 that you used?
A: I believe the correct length is 30 some odd inches long?
Q: 30 something inches long?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ever break that rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, I broke it down many times.

The M-14 is over 44 inches long.

How do we know that Buell was telling the truth, i.e., that he really, really, really thought an M-14 was only about 30 inches long?

Because he was under oath?

LOL!
« Last Edit: Today at 12:17:29 PM by Tom Graves »

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #18 on: Today at 04:18:32 AM »


Online David Von Pein

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #19 on: Today at 04:42:16 AM »
The links below contain my $0.02 (or maybe a touch more than that 😁) regarding such things as Curtain Rods, Linnie Randle, Buell Frazier, Carport Slats, and the Large-ish Paper Bag (which was photographed on the sixth floor by the police, albeit by accident; see 3rd link):

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/curtain-rods.html

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/05/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-709.html

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/frazier-randle-and-paper-bag.html

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/03/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-914.html

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2018/03/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1275.html

« Last Edit: Today at 05:19:28 AM by David Von Pein »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #20 on: Today at 11:28:12 AM »
This just occurred to me regarding Buell Wesley Frazier. He testified that he had served in the US Army. Yet he was only 19-years old on 11/22/63. So, what do we know about Frazier’s record in the Army? How long of a term did Frazier sign up for? Going from memory only, it does seem like there was a two-year and a four-year option back then. So, it might be possible he joined at 17-years old and had already finished a two-year term. But is that what actually happened? Did he serve his entire term? Was he honorably discharged? Were any of these questions answered in his testimonies or in his book? I am just curious to know what kind of a person we are talking about when discussing the BWF of 1963.

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #20 on: Today at 11:28:12 AM »


Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #21 on: Today at 01:46:05 PM »
FWIW, I also noticed at the mock trial that Frazier agreed with Bugliosi that the rifle "could have" extended beyond Oswald's hand because he "only glanced" at it. Spence treated him as a hostile witness, trying to get him to say that the FBI had tried to twist his arm for a longer package and that Bugliosi had extensively prepped him, but Frazier didn't take the bait. He did acknowledge saying the package was under the armpit and cupped in the hand, whereupon Spence let the matter drop. Later, of course, he said that he and Randle had been extensively pressured to change their stories - which, if true, makes it seem odd that they were questioned so extensively about the package at the WC, no?

Pat Speer made a slightly comical remark (I thought) in regard to the 30" M14. Pat emphasized that, regarding the package, Frazier was talking about something he had recently seen, whereas his experience with the M14 had been long ago. But wait - he repeatedly said he had not paid much attention to the package, whereas he "quite frequently" and "many times" BROKE DOWN an M14. Moreover, my understanding is that both of his stints in the Army were after the JFKA (the second ending in 1977), so the 1969 Shaw trial testimony would scarcely qualify as long ago.

I'm a bit disappointed that JFKA threads always turn into "evidentiary" threads and that the "epistemological" questions fall by the wayside. There has been 62 years of he said, she said, what about this, what about this over here, etc., etc. I just don't think they go anywhere anymore and that this aspect of the JFKA is dying on the vine. (Look at the Ed Forum these days - it's a pathetic shadow of its former self.) It seems to me that the more interesting discussions, on specific issues and the JFKA as a whole, would be more in the vein of "OK, explain how, at least in your mind, what you are saying makes logical sense and is at least reasonably plausible."
« Last Edit: Today at 01:46:50 PM by Lance Payette »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #22 on: Today at 02:17:04 PM »
FWIW, I also noticed at the mock trial that Frazier agreed with Bugliosi that the rifle "could have" extended beyond Oswald's hand because he "only glanced" at it. Spence treated him as a hostile witness, trying to get him to say that the FBI had tried to twist his arm for a longer package and that Bugliosi had extensively prepped him, but Frazier didn't take the bait. He did acknowledge saying the package was under the armpit and cupped in the hand, whereupon Spence let the matter drop. Later, of course, he said that he and Randle had been extensively pressured to change their stories - which, if true, makes it seem odd that they were questioned so extensively about the package at the WC, no?

Pat Speer made a slightly comical remark (I thought) in regard to the 30" M14. Pat emphasized that, regarding the package, Frazier was talking about something he had recently seen, whereas his experience with the M14 had been long ago. But wait - he repeatedly said he had not paid much attention to the package, whereas he "quite frequently" and "many times" BROKE DOWN an M14. Moreover, my understanding is that both of his stints in the Army were after the JFKA (the second ending in 1977), so the 1969 Shaw trial testimony would scarcely qualify as long ago.

I'm a bit disappointed that JFKA threads always turn into "evidentiary" threads and that the "epistemological" questions fall by the wayside. There has been 62 years of he said, she said, what about this, what about this over here, etc., etc. I just don't think they go anywhere anymore and that this aspect of the JFKA is dying on the vine. (Look at the Ed Forum these days - it's a pathetic shadow of its former self.) It seems to me that the more interesting discussions, on specific issues and the JFKA as a whole, would be more in the vein of "OK, explain how, at least in your mind, what you are saying makes logical sense and is at least reasonably plausible."


Moreover, my understanding is that both of his stints in the Army were after the JFKA (the second ending in 1977), so the 1969 Shaw trial testimony would scarcely qualify as long ago.

Thanks, I failed to notice that the testimony regarding the army service was part of the Shaw trial. That makes my earlier questions moot. Please disregard them.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #23 on: Today at 07:15:44 PM »
All things considered, I see the most plausible explanation being that the package contained the disassembled Carcano and that Frazier and Randle were simply mistaken about the length by 7"-10”.

Of course you do.

Quote
I once again focus on what I call epistemology, meaning trying to think through how much sense any other explanation would make. For an explanation to be epistemologically justified, it doesn’t have to be true; it merely has to be rational.

The rational conclusion is that the contents of the package are unknown and unknowable.  "Not curtain rods" does not equal "disassembled Carcano rifle".

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Re: Walk me through this, curtain rod fans
« Reply #23 on: Today at 07:15:44 PM »