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Author Topic: Marilyn Sitzman  (Read 2511 times)

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2025, 09:05:29 PM »
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The best source of information is the physical evidence provided by the shells. One thing to remember is medias influence began almost immediately based on Walter Cronkite reading Merriman Smith’s news bulletin of three shots within in minutes of the assassination. Watch the Bill Newman interview and Jay Watson correcting them as to the number of shots, because he was there. Gayle Newman is reading the news bulletin in Jay's hand before she speaks.

The “chamber mark” on the side of the shells tells the story. If you don't understand what is meant by the FBI referring to the “Chamber Mark” on the side of the shells, find a gun guy and he will explain it. 

Read Josiah Thompson’s observation in Six Seconds in Dallas, (pages 140 –146 and the footnotes on page 178), of the other 30+ shells fired in the carcano by the FBI. CE 141 seals the deal by having the “chamber mark” on the side of it. It proves the expansion of the chamber due to heat and pressure is what makes the “chamber mark”. The FBI could verify the observation of Thompson by examining the shells and the carcano in the Smithsonian, but there is no need because they already verified it in the Hoover report to Rankin.

The book Phantom Shot proves what is in Six Seconds in Dallas and the book Six Seconds in Dallas proves what is in Phantom Shot.

While doing some reading on CE 543, the dented shell casing, I came across these two old threads on the Ed Forum. Tink Thompson participates on both (and in fact started one). The discussions get pretty technical, but I found them interesting

"An unfired cartridge?" (2007): https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/9276-an-unfired-cartridge/

'The provenance of CE 543 and Gary Murr's recent report" (2009): https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/14177-the-provenance-of-ce-543-and-gary-murr%E2%80%99s-recent-report/

They also serve as a somewhat depressing reminder of the quality of the discussions on forums such as this before the inmates took over the asylum. Now I return to the real world.  Walk:

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2025, 09:05:29 PM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2025, 09:28:25 PM »
  Professionals are very conscience of their equipment. Whether it's a soldier with their weapon or a professional photographer with their camera/settings. Pros are perfectionists. They know their equipment.
  You notice that the WC Never questions an eyewitness as to seeing another assassination eyewitness? WC Never asked Zapruder if he saw Wiegman running Directly at him as we see on the Bell Film. Never asked Officer Hargis if he saw Altgens running across Elm St as he/Hargis was standing at the light pole. (Couch Film).  They wanted to avoid eyewitnesses Documenting who was where/when. They wanted to avoid JFK Assassination Eyewitnesses contradicting the assassination images. Altgens went out of his way to do exactly this.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2025, 11:51:34 PM »
The earwitness/eyewitness debates remind of "The Invisible Gorilla." You are asked to count how many times the people dressed in white pass the basketball. In the middle of the video, a gorilla walks in. More than half of the viewers miss the gorilla, and many insist there was no gorilla when informed there was. There are many similar tests where some outrageously dressed character runs into a classroom, shoots the professor several times, and runs out. The students' recollections are all over the map.

Our old friend Bill Chapman used to trot out the gorilla playing basketball trope.  Funny, we haven't heard from him in a while...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2025, 11:52:28 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2025, 11:51:34 PM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2025, 02:00:15 AM »
While doing some reading on CE 543, the dented shell casing, I came across these two old threads on the Ed Forum. Tink Thompson participates on both (and in fact started one). The discussions get pretty technical, but I found them interesting

"An unfired cartridge?" (2007): https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/9276-an-unfired-cartridge/

'The provenance of CE 543 and Gary Murr's recent report" (2009): https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/14177-the-provenance-of-ce-543-and-gary-murr%E2%80%99s-recent-report/

They also serve as a somewhat depressing reminder of the quality of the discussions on forums such as this before the inmates took over the asylum. Now I return to the real world.  Walk:

Forget the dented lip. This is not about the dented lip or the mark from the magazine follower. Wrong indentation and mark.

Read the book. Pages 140-146 and the foot notes to the chapter on page 178. This is about the "chamber mark" as noted by the FBI, nothing else, CE 543 lacks the "chamber mark" the 30+ others do not.

Funny Josiah knew of a key piece to the puzzle back in the mid 60’s, puts it into print in his book Six Seconds in Dallas, but apparently does not understand the relevance and significance of it because he cannot weave it into a conspiracy. In 1967, he felt it proved there was a shot from somewhere else that LHO only fired twice. He must have given up on that theory. Josiah giving up on his theory in no way diminishes the importance of his observation. He is the only person to view all these shells that were fired in the rifle, compare them, and write about them.

The bottom line based on his observations, CE 543 is the only shell that lacks the indentation referred to as the “chamber mark” by the FBI, whereas the next 30+ shell casings including the unfired cartridge all exhibit to some degree the “chamber mark”. The “Chamber Mark” is not the dented lip.  They are completely different, as is the mark from the magazine follower. READ THE BOOK.

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2025, 02:06:48 AM »
  Altgens also disputed where they placed him there on Elm St inside Dealey Plaza. He claimed he was further East on Elm St. His claim was based on his camera settings. He said based on where they were placing him on Elm St vs his camera settings, his picture of JFK through the Limo windshield with the TSBD doorway in the background would have never come out. Altgens also testified that after crossing Elm St, he then followed law enforcement UP the Knoll. None of this is captured on any JFK assassination images.

How is this post, in any stretch of the imagination, even remotely relatable to Altgens stating he only heard two shots while standing in full view, alongside the street, staring into the car as JFK was shot twice.

If you can prove there was three shots Royell by all means get after it.

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2025, 02:06:48 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2025, 02:22:43 AM »
The earwitness/eyewitness debates remind of "The Invisible Gorilla." You are asked to count how many times the people dressed in white pass the basketball. In the middle of the video, a gorilla walks in. More than half of the viewers miss the gorilla, and many insist there was no gorilla when informed there was. There are many similar tests where some outrageously dressed character runs into a classroom, shoots the professor several times, and runs out. The students' recollections are all over the map.

The JFKA is like "the killer in the classroom" times 100, and Dealey Plaza is an almost perfect echo chamber.

https://www.npr.org/2010/05/19/126977945/bet-you-didnt-notice-the-invisible-gorilla

I really don't know how anyone misses the gorilla, but the giraffe is trickier.


This is not about just seeing but seeing and hearing. Maybe the Gorilla story is not relevant when two senses are involved. An echo chamber would result in more shots not less. Like hearing three when there was only two.

A way better analogy is Group Think where people are influenced by the majority into something they know is wrong. Like Walter Cronkite stating within minutes of the assassination "three shots fired at the motorcade", Not everyone in the car with Merriman Smith agreed with that news bulletin. 

An argument took place on Air Force One between the passengers (news reporters and Secret Service), on the flight back to Washington, about was there two shots or three. Three shots was never a fact.

The WC and HSCA understood it by referencing the Medias Influence into inflating the number of shots reported.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2025, 03:30:40 AM »
How is this post, in any stretch of the imagination, even remotely relatable to Altgens stating he only heard two shots while standing in full view, alongside the street, staring into the car as JFK was shot twice.

If you can prove there was three shots Royell by all means get after it.

   The point is, Altgens disagreed with the WC "Company line" on many points and said so on-the-record. Why you are veering to me and how many shots I believe were fired is both puzzling and flattering.

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2025, 06:22:29 AM »
   The point is, Altgens disagreed with the WC "Company line" on many points and said so on-the-record. Why you are veering to me and how many shots I believe were fired is both puzzling and flattering.

Altgens disagreed with the WC


Exactly how was he disagreeing with the WC? They asked him how many shots, and he told them. Are you sure the problem isn’t the fact he is disagreeing with your odd theory.

Why you are veering to me and how many shots I believe were fired is both puzzling and flattering.

Do not be to flattered. If you think Altgens was wrong stop talking about it and prove it.

 

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2025, 06:22:29 AM »