Two Wallets? Nope.

[Bill Brown]

I wouldn't be insulting and attacking you if you didn't attempt to first ridicule me into answering your questions.

Touchy, touchy

But at least you agree that you were insulting and attacking me. That's something.

As for ridiculing you into answering my questions, I didn't do that at all. I merely said, as a statement of fact, that you never answer my questions and time after time you prove me correct.
If you feel that's ridicule then that's your problem.

As for Westbrook and Barrett, I never said they "obtained" any wallet. 

You suggested that Barrett was possibly misremembering about where Westbrook asked him about the two names.

All of this is covered in "With Malice" by Dale Myers.

Wow, so it must be true, right? 

Btw, are you now suggesting that Westbrook asked Barrett the question without actually (and I paraphrase) obtaining the wallet?

And, more importantly, why in the world would Westbrook ask Barrett that question in his office, when Oswald is already at the police station?

I said Westbrook, Barrett and the wallet were all three present at the same time inside Westbrook's office when they all brought Oswald in from the theater. 
Westbrook's office is where all of the officers involved in the arrest inside the theater gathered to make their reports.

You haven't explained at all how the wallet came to be in Westbrook's office and that it was there at the same time Westbrook and Barrett were. We know that a wallet containing two ID's was given to Gus Rose when Oswald was brought into the police station. We have no credible information about where that wallet went to after Rose's conversation with Oswald.

Does all of this mean that you're finally ready to a live debate with me?

[Richard Smith]

Does all of this mean that you're finally ready to a live debate with me?

Don't hold your breath Bill.  "Martin" from "Europe" is all talk.   He will come with a thousand reasons not to debate you.  A real coward.

[Martin Weidmann]

Does all of this mean that you're finally ready to a live debate with me?

It actually means that there is no reason at all for me to debate anything with you.
If you are not answering my questions, and you never do, I might just as well waste my time talking to a brick wall.

I'll ask again; why are you so desperate to debate me?

Here's a suggestion; start answering my questions if you want me to debate you. Who knows, perhaps I'll reconsider.

 

[Martin Weidmann]

Don't hold your breath Bill.  "Martin" from "Europe" is all talk.   He will come with a thousand reasons not to debate you.  A real coward.

Said the guy who came up with this one;

The evidence that Oswald came down the stairs at the TSBD within 75 seconds after is the shots is....... THAT IT HAPPENED - Richard Smith

Hilarious!

[Lance Payette]

I continue to be befuddled by what the significance of all this is supposed to be. What is it?

OK, in the utter chaos and confusion of the JFKA and the Tippit shooting, there is some doubt about whose wallet was found and filmed at the Tippit scene, with several plausible candidates. So what?

OK, in the utter chaos and confusion there is some doubt about precisely how Oswald's wallet was taken from him and handled and some conflict in the recollections and reports of the officers. So what?

If Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit secne, THAT certainly doesn't help the CT cause. What sense would it make for the arresting officers at the Texas Theater to say they had taken a wallet from Oswald if in fact his wallet had been found at the Tippit scene? Surely a wallet at the Tippit scene and no wallet in his pocket at the Texas Theater would have been the perfect "set up," no?

If the CT theory is that a wallet identical to Oswald's was planted at the Tippit scene, which is the only CT-friendly scenario I can see, this raises all the "epistemological" questions I raised above and that some CTer characterized as "useless garbage" because he couldn't answer them. What are the answers, please? Make sense of your "planting" theory for me.

What significance would the name Hidell have been to anyone on the afternoon of the JFKA? Why would anyone have "planted" a Hidell ID on Oswald unless they somehow knew he had ordered a rifle using that name in March? Is that the theory - the Hidell ID was added to tie him to the rifle?

Yes, I'm lost. What is the significance, if any, of whatever point Martin thinks he's making? OK, some of the recollections and reports don't mesh, but that's entirely to be expected. What is supposed to be suspicious or fodder for CT theorizing here?

Is this simply much ado about nothing, or what? Enquiring minds want to know.

[Jon Banks]

I continue to be befuddled by what the significance of all this is supposed to be. What is it?

It’s okay to admit that you don’t know the answers to some questions Lance.

What we know is that this is an unresolved issue related to the Tippit murder investigation. What we don’t know is what it means.

A ) Barrett and Croy either lied or were mistaken.

B ) The officers who said Oswald had his wallet when he was arrested either lied or were mistaken.

C ) None of the officers lied or were mistaken because the police found more than one wallet with Oswald’s ID that day. If there were two wallets belonging to Oswald, what happened to the second one?

I don’t know the answers to these questions. If “C” is the correct answer, I don’t know if it means someone tried to frame Oswald for Tippit’s murder while also connecting him to the Hidell alias, or if it means LHO carried more than one wallet that day.

[Lance Payette]

It’s okay to admit that you don’t know the answer to some questions Lance.

What we know is that this is an unresolved issue related to the Tippit murder investigation. What we don’t know is what it means.

A ) Barrett and Croy either lied or were mistaken.

B ) The officers who said Oswald had his wallet when he was arrested either lied or were mistaken.

C ) None of the officers lied or were mistaken because the police found more than one wallet with Oswald’s ID that day. If there were two wallets belonging to Oswald, what happened to the second one?

I don’t know the answers to these questions. If “C” is the correct answer, I don’t know if it means someone tried to frame Oswald for Tippit’s murder while also connecting him to the Hidell alias, or if it means LHO carried more than one wallet that day.

But that's kind of my point. "Were mistaken," given the chaos and confusion, is perfectly understandable and is neither suspicious nor fodder for CT theorizing.

If the preferred answer is "lied," then one should be able to articulate a plausible reason for why they would have lied.

Ditto if there were two wallets. One should be able to articulate a plausible reason.

In short, one should at least be able to provide a coherent answer to my little "What sense would that have made?" questions.

If we admit the answer will always remain a mystery, then the debate is - or should be - at the level of which scenario seems the most plausible and makes the most sense. But that's exactly where those who are making the most noise - looking at you, Martin - don't seem to want to go.

[Jon Banks]

But that's kind of my point. "Were mistaken," given the chaos and confusion, is perfectly understandable and is neither suspicious nor fodder for CT theorizing.

If the preferred answer is "lied," then one should be able to articulate a plausible reason for why they would have lied.

I don't have a preferred answer.

You're welcome to assume that innocent mistakes were made by the Dallas PD. I'm open to that but also consider the possibilities for negligence and malice.

Ditto if there were two wallets. One should be able to articulate a plausible reason.

I gave two plausible explanations. Here it goes again:

- someone planted a wallet with Oswald's name and the Hidell ID at the Tippit murder scene

- Oswald carried more than one wallet that day and dropped one at the Tippit murder scene


The former would indicate a conspiracy. The latter is plausible even without a conspiracy.

Again, I admit that I don't know what to make of the "Two wallets" story. All we can do is speculate for now.

In short, one should at least be able to provide a coherent answer to my little "What sense would that have made?" questions.

If we admit the answer will always remain a mystery, then the debate is - or should be - at the level of which scenario seems the most plausible and makes the most sense.

It's not always possible to do that Lance.

Lots of historical events have unresolved questions. There's absolutely nothing wrong with debating or speculating about unresolved questions in a historical event.

As of today, we're unable to say with 100% certainty that FBI agent Barrett and Dallas PD officer Croy, were mistaken or lied about Oswald's wallet being found at the Tippit murder scene. There's even news footage showing police officers inspecting a wallet at the Tippit scene.

What are we supposed to do with this information? Ignore it?