Two Wallets? Nope.

[Bill Brown]

For what it's worth, Bob Carroll told the Warren Commission that he remembered (during the car ride from the theater to headquarters) two different names being mentioned when the wallet was removed from Oswald's back pocket.  Also, Gerald Hill told the Commission that two names were read from the wallet (by Bentley) while in the car on the way to headquarters.

Bentley turned over the wallet (taken from Oswald while inside the car) to Lt. Baker who confirmed, in a 1999 interview with Dale Myers, that the wallet had identifications in two different names inside.  The officers involved in the arrest were inside the office of Westbrook.  This is where each filled out their reports, re: the arrest inside the theater.  The wallet, Westbrook and Barrett were all three inside Westbrook's office at the same time, once they arrived at headquarters from the theater.  Baker took the wallet to Fritz' office and described looking inside the wallet and seeing identifications inside in two different names and so he asked Oswald which one he was.  Oswald finally stated that his name was Oswald.  When Fritz arrived in his office, the wallet was given to Fritz.

C.T. Walker sat with Oswald inside Fritz' office before Fritz arrived. Walker told the Warren Commission that he recalled the wallet contained a photo identification in the name of Hidell.

Fritz kept the wallet in his possession until the next day when he sent it to the crime lab (Crime Scene Search Section of the Identification Bureau) in order to photograph the contents inside.  The wallet was returned to Fritz where it stayed in a drawer in his desk along with other items.

Then, according to James Hosty, on Wednesday the 27th, the contents of the desk drawer were turned over to Hosty of the FBI.  Hosty photographed the wallet and other items from the desk drawer before sending all of it to Washington.

As for Weidmann's question to me, re: Bardin... Bardin followed Davenport and the ambulance with Tippit to Methodist Hospital.  At Methodist, Tippit's body was stripped of it's belongings.  Bud Owens testified that Tippit's wallet, badge, handcuffs, wrist watch and other items were placed in a large paper envelope and turned over to Bardin to be taken to the property room of the Identification Bureau.  This is all I know, re: Bardin and ANY wallet.

[Richard Smith]

I've applied logic and common sense to this topic. It doesn't resolve the mystery of the discrepancy regarding the differing accounts of when and where Oswald's wallet was obtained.

As of today, we cannot rule out the possibility that Officer Croy and Agent Barrett's accounts were accurate. We can't dismiss their stories simply because it doesn't line up with the official narrative.

It's a mystery.

Why not address the questions?  Start with this one.  If the police had found a discarded wallet at the crime scene, wouldn't they have cause to believe it was related to the crime and potentially owned by the murder suspect?  If so, wouldn't they have immediately radioed out the name of the suspect? 

[Lance Payette]

I've applied logic and common sense to this topic. It doesn't resolve the mystery of the discrepancy regarding the differing accounts of when and where Oswald's wallet was obtained.

As of today, we cannot rule out the possibility that Officer Croy and Agent Barrett's accounts were accurate. We can't dismiss their stories simply because it doesn't line up with the official narrative.

It's a mystery.

"Discrepancy" ... "mystery" ... "possibility."

This is how conspiracy logic works. Every "discrepancy" is a "mystery" and the foundation for a conspiracy-oriented "possibility" that should raise questions about the "official narrative," as though the term official narrative were automatically suspect.

In events far less complex and chaotic than the JFKA and its aftermath, there are always discrepancies that are never resolved. A narrative is constructed from the best evidence and most reasonable and plausible inferences. When we're done, we can in fact reject the discrepancies precisely because they do not mesh with the best evidence and most reasonable and plausible inferences.

Conspiracy logic is almost completely backwards. Discrepancies and speculation about them drive the conspiracy bus, as though the official narrative were nothing more than an attempt to avoid the discrepancies and were not in fact based on the best evidence and most reasonable and plausible inferences.

[Martin Weidmann]

For what it's worth, Bob Carroll told the Warren Commission that he remembered (during the car ride from the theater to headquarters) two different names being mentioned when the wallet was removed from Oswald's back pocket.  Also, Gerald Hill told the Commission that two names were read from the wallet (by Bentley) while in the car on the way to headquarters.

Bentley turned over the wallet (taken from Oswald while inside the car) to Lt. Baker who confirmed, in a 1999 interview with Dale Myers, that the wallet had identifications in two different names inside.  The officers involved in the arrest were inside the office of Westbrook.  This is where each filled out their reports, re: the arrest inside the theater.  The wallet, Westbrook and Barrett were all three inside Westbrook's office at the same time, once they arrived at headquarters from the theater.  Baker took the wallet to Fritz' office and described looking inside the wallet and seeing identifications inside in two different names and so he asked Oswald which one he was.  Oswald finally stated that his name was Oswald.  When Fritz arrived in his office, the wallet was given to Fritz.

C.T. Walker sat with Oswald inside Fritz' office before Fritz arrived. Walker told the Warren Commission that he recalled the wallet contained a photo identification in the name of Hidell.

Fritz kept the wallet in his possession until the next day when he sent it to the crime lab (Crime Scene Search Section of the Identification Bureau) in order to photograph the contents inside.  The wallet was returned to Fritz where it stayed in a drawer in his desk along with other items.

Then, according to James Hosty, on Wednesday the 27th, the contents of the desk drawer were turned over to Hosty of the FBI.  Hosty photographed the wallet and other items from the desk drawer before sending all of it to Washington.

As for Weidmann's question to me, re: Bardin... Bardin followed Davenport and the ambulance with Tippit to Methodist Hospital.  At Methodist, Tippit's body was stripped of it's belongings.  Bud Owens testified that Tippit's wallet, badge, handcuffs, wrist watch and other items were placed in a large paper envelope and turned over to Bardin to be taken to the property room of the Identification Bureau.  This is all I know, re: Bardin and ANY wallet.

For what it's worth, Bob Carroll told the Warren Commission that he remembered (during the car ride from the theater to headquarters) two different names being mentioned when the wallet was removed from Oswald's back pocket.  Also, Gerald Hill told the Commission that two names were read from the wallet (by Bentley) while in the car on the way to headquarters.

Vague memories, some four months after the fact, by two officers who did not mention a second name in their contemporary reports isn't very compelling evidence.

Bentley turned over the wallet (taken from Oswald while inside the car) to Lt. Baker who confirmed, in a 1999 interview with Dale Myers, that the wallet had identifications in two different names inside.   

So, you rely on a 36 year old memory by Lt. Baker, that does not match the known fact that Gus Rose had a wallet with two ID's in it when he talked to Oswald, just after the latter had been brought into the police station.

Mr. BALL. And then you found two or three cards on him?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.
Mr. BALL. Did you search him?
Mr. ROSE. He had already been searched and someone had his billfold. I don't know whether it was the patrolman who brought him in that had it or not.
Mr. BALL. And the contents of the billfold supposedly were before you?
Mr. ROSE. Yes.

How can Bentley have given the wallet to Lt Baker, when Gus Rose was handed it by an unidentified person? And even if Baker misremembered and it was Rose who gave the wallet to him, how could he possibly have know that it was the wallet Bentley took from Oswald in the car?

The officers involved in the arrest were inside the office of Westbrook.  This is where each filled out their reports, re: the arrest inside the theater.  The wallet, Westbrook and Barrett were all three inside Westbrook's office at the same time, once they arrived at headquarters from the theater. 

Let's see if I understand this correctly. The officers involved in the arrest (likely without Bentley who went to the hospital), Westbrook and Barrett were all in the same office, writing their arrest reports. And then, the men who were in the car with Oswald when Bentley took Oswald's wallet from him, learn, what (if Carroll and Hill are to be believed) they already knew, that the wallet contained two ID's and (according to Carroll's testimony) also two addresses and nobody came up with the idea to include this detail in their report? Really?

And Barrett said that he nearly stepped in a pool of Tippit's blood, which is a vivid recollection that places him at the scene. Westbrook, looking at the wallet and asking Barrett if he had ever heard of Oswald or Hidell, at the scene, seems plausible to me. But why would Westbrook ask Barrett that question when they are in his office and they already have Oswald in custody?

Could it be that Baker's memory simply wasn't all that reliable, some 36 years after the fact? Or does that only apply to witnesses who, years later, say something that does not match the official narrative?

As for Weidmann's question to me, re: Bardin... Bardin followed Davenport and the ambulance with Tippit to Methodist Hospital.  At Methodist, Tippit's body was stripped of it's belongings.  Bud Owens testified that Tippit's wallet, badge, handcuffs, wrist watch and other items were placed in a large paper envelope and turned over to Bardin to be taken to the property room of the Identification Bureau.  This is all I know, re: Bardin and ANY wallet.

You are correct. I had placed the receipt of the property room in the wrong folder. My bad!

[Bill Brown]

Bentley took a wallet from Oswald in the car which took them from the Texas Theater to the police station. None of the officers in the car have mentioned, in their contemporary reports, that a Hidell ID was found in that wallet.
Gus Rose, who had just arrived at the police station after Oswald had been brought in, was the first officer to talk to him. Just before that some unidentified officer gave Rose a wallet and told him it was Oswald's.

Mr. ROSE. He had already been searched and someone had his billfold. I don't know whether it was the patrolman who brought him in that had it or not.

That wallet did contain the Hidell ID.

At 3.25 PM traffic officer Bardin submitted a black wallet with some other items to the evidence room.


How did Westbrook and Barrett obtain "Oswald's wallet" at the police station and how did it end up in the possession of officer Bardin?

And what was Westbrook looking at on 10th street? There was speculation about it being Tippit's wallet but that has long been debunked.

Bump for Bill Brown.

Yet more questions that you leave unanswered?

As for Weidmann's question to me, re: Bardin... Bardin followed Davenport and the ambulance with Tippit to Methodist Hospital.  At Methodist, Tippit's body was stripped of it's belongings.  Bud Owens testified that Tippit's wallet, badge, handcuffs, wrist watch and other items were placed in a large paper envelope and turned over to Bardin to be taken to the property room of the Identification Bureau.  This is all I know, re: Bardin and ANY wallet.

You are correct. I had placed the receipt of the property room in the wrong folder. My bad!

Nothing like being ridiculed for "not answering questions" and the whole time, the one asking the questions didn't know what he was talking about.

[Martin Weidmann]

Nothing like being ridiculed for "not answering questions"

You didn't answer my questions.

Bentley giving the wallet (taken from Oswald in the car) to Lt Baker (if that actually happened) tells me nothing about how Westbrook and Barrett obtained the wallet with two ID's in it.

Nor does it tell me what Westbrook was looking at on 10th street,

and the whole time, the one asking the questions didn't know what he was talking about.

Feel superior now? Anybody can make a mistake but only a 5 year old uses the mistake being admitted to as a way to insult and attack. You're some nasty piece of work, Brown!

[Bill Brown]

You didn't answer my questions.

Bentley giving the wallet (taken from Oswald in the car) to Lt Baker (if that actually happened) tells me nothing about how Westbrook and Barrett obtained the wallet with two ID's in it.

Nor does it tell me what Westbrook was looking at on 10th street,

and the whole time, the one asking the questions didn't know what he was talking about.

Feel superior now? Anybody can make a mistake but only a 5 year old uses the mistake being admitted to as a way to insult and attack. You're some nasty piece of work, Brown!

You (once again) completely miss the point.

I wouldn't be insulting and attacking you if you didn't attempt to first ridicule me into answering your questions.

As for Westbrook and Barrett, I never said they "obtained" any wallet.  I said Westbrook, Barrett and the wallet were all three present at the same time inside Westbrook's office when they all brought Oswald in from the theater.  Westbrook's office is where all of the officers involved in the arrest inside the theater gathered to make their reports.

[Martin Weidmann]

You (once again) completely miss the point.

I wouldn't be insulting and attacking you if you didn't attempt to first ridicule me into answering your questions.

As for Westbrook and Barrett, I never said they "obtained" any wallet.  I said Westbrook, Barrett and the wallet were all three present at the same time inside Westbrook's office when they all brought Oswald in from the theater.  Westbrook's office is where all of the officers involved in the arrest inside the theater gathered to make their reports.

I wouldn't be insulting and attacking you if you didn't attempt to first ridicule me into answering your questions.

Touchy, touchy

But at least you agree that you were insulting and attacking me. That's something.

As for ridiculing you into answering my questions, I didn't do that at all. I merely said, as a statement of fact, that you never answer my questions and time after time you prove me correct.
If you feel that's ridicule then that's your problem.

As for Westbrook and Barrett, I never said they "obtained" any wallet. 

You suggested that Barrett was possibly misremembering about where Westbrook asked him about the two names.

Oswald's wallet, along with both Westbrook and Barrett, were inside Westbrook's office once Oswald was brought in. Let me say that again... All three (Oswald's wallet, Westbrook & Barrett) were inside Westbrook's office after Oswald was brought in. I believe Barrett is being honest when he says Westbrook asked him about Oswald/Hidell identifications inside a wallet. I just think Barrett is misremembering where it was that the brief conversation took place, i.e. inside Westbrook's office versus at Tenth & Patton.  All of this is covered in "With Malice" by Dale Myers.

All of this is covered in "With Malice" by Dale Myers.

Wow, so it must be true, right? 

Btw, are you now suggesting that Westbrook asked Barrett the question without actually (and I paraphrase) obtaining the wallet?

And, more importantly, why in the world would Westbrook ask Barrett that question in his office, when Oswald is already at the police station?

I said Westbrook, Barrett and the wallet were all three present at the same time inside Westbrook's office when they all brought Oswald in from the theater. 
Westbrook's office is where all of the officers involved in the arrest inside the theater gathered to make their reports.

You haven't explained at all how the wallet came to be in Westbrook's office and that it was there at the same time Westbrook and Barrett were. We know that a wallet containing two ID's was given to Gus Rose when Oswald was brought into the police station. We have no credible information about where that wallet went to after Rose's conversation with Oswald.