Two Wallets? Nope.

[John Mytton]

What also doesn't make sense is that none of the reports from 11/22/63 mentioned the Hidell ID being in the contents of Oswald's wallet. As someone noted earlier on this topic, officer Bentley didn't mention the Hiddell ID when he went on TV that day and described the contents of Oswald's wallet. The whole thing is peculiar.

The film footage and photo from the Tippit crime scene indirectly corroborates the FBI agent's (Barrett?) claim about Oswald's wallet being found before he was arrested (assuming the wallet in the film footage wasn't Tippit's).

What explains the discrepancy? I don't know.

There's two ways of looking at the Hidell issue;

1) The Occam's razor approach, Oswald ordered a mail order rifle with the alias Alek Hidell and took it to work and killed the President.

Or

2) The CT approach, where everything and anything needs to be possible, or plain and simply any conspiracy just won't work.

The following compiled list reflects the effort for just a tiny fraction of a planned conspiracy, the faking of Oswald's Hidell alias.

The Hidell ID was manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID was planted by the Police
The Hidell ID negatives were manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID negatives were planted by conspirators in the Paine residence
The Hidell name was inserted by conspirators into the New Orleans post box application records.
The Hidell name was connected To Oswald's New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was used as The "Chapter President" of Oswald's made up Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was forged by conspirators onto Oswald's "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
The Hidell name was written on membership cards by conspirators other than Marina, who must have lied.
The Hidell name was a play on "Fidel" according to Marina who must have lied
The Hidell name was forged onto the Klein's coupon
The Hidell Kleins coupon addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Klein's microfilm
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kleins envelope
The Hidell Kleins Envelope addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kleins microfilm
The Hidell name on on the Kleins Coupon found by Waldman on the night following the assassination was forgotten?
The Hidell rifle was never sent to Oswald's PO box
The Hidell newly manufactured microfilm was substituted at some point with Kleins business records microfilm.
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or Police lied
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or a Postal official lied
The Hidell ID was asked of Oswald or an FBI agent lied
The Hidell name was forged onto Oswald Job applications as a reference
The Hidell rifle was photographed with Oswald by either forgery or trickery
The Hidell rifle was planted on the 6th floor of Oswald's work by conspirators
The Hidell revolver coupon was forged by conspirators
The Hidell name was forged onto the Seaport-Traders paperwork
The Hidell revolver was lied about by the Police
The Hidell revolver was substituted by Police
And on and on it goes!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

There's two ways of looking at the Hidell issue;

1) The Occam's razor approach, Oswald ordered a mail order rifle with the alias Alek Hidell and took it to work and killed the President.

Or

2) The CT approach, where everything and anything needs to be possible, or plain and simply any conspiracy just won't work.

The following compiled list reflects the effort for just a tiny fraction of a planned conspiracy, the faking of Oswald's Hidell alias.

The Hidell ID was manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID was planted by the Police
The Hidell ID negatives were manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID negatives were planted by conspirators in the Paine residence
The Hidell name was inserted by conspirators into the New Orleans post box application records.
The Hidell name was connected To Oswald's New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was used as The "Chapter President" of Oswald's made up Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was forged by conspirators onto Oswald's "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
The Hidell name was written on membership cards by conspirators other than Marina, who must have lied.
The Hidell name was a play on "Fidel" according to Marina who must have lied
The Hidell name was forged onto the Klein's coupon
The Hidell Kleins coupon addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Klein's microfilm
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kleins envelope
The Hidell Kleins Envelope addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kleins microfilm
The Hidell name on on the Kleins Coupon found by Waldman on the night following the assassination was forgotten?
The Hidell rifle was never sent to Oswald's PO box
The Hidell newly manufactured microfilm was substituted at some point with Kleins business records microfilm.
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or Police lied
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or a Postal official lied
The Hidell ID was asked of Oswald or an FBI agent lied
The Hidell name was forged onto Oswald Job applications as a reference
The Hidell rifle was photographed with Oswald by either forgery or trickery
The Hidell rifle was planted on the 6th floor of Oswald's work by conspirators
The Hidell revolver coupon was forged by conspirators
The Hidell name was forged onto the Seaport-Traders paperwork
The Hidell revolver was lied about by the Police
The Hidell revolver was substituted by Police
And on and on it goes!

JohnM

Just because you make up a list of things you believe must have happened doesn't mean they actually did happen.

What you believe conspirators must have done is nothing more than worthless speculation, just like your "Occam's razor approach" is in reality nothing more than a massive jump to a conclusion based on assumptions.

[Tom Graves]

Just because you make up a list of things you believe must have happened doesn't mean they actually did happen.

What you believe conspirators must have done is nothing more than worthless speculation, just like your "Occam's razor approach" is in reality nothing more than a massive jump to a conclusion based on assumptions.

Weedyman,

How and why do you figure the bad guys created the Hidell persona?

[Lance Payette]

OK, this is totally irrelevant, but it is pretty wild:

Perhaps you already know this, but in 1997 a writer bought the grave plot next to Oswald’s at the Shannon Rose Hill Cemetery in Ft. Worth and installed a joke marker with his pen name, “Nick Beef.”



More relevant is that someone else bought a plot a dozen paces from Oswald and installed a marker that simply says “Hidell.”



In 2019, a newspaper reporter brought the significance of Hidell to the cemetery management, which then removed the marker. https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/other-voices/article228503184.html.

Yet another of my significant contributions to JFKA research. You’re welcome. (If you're thinking about a marker that says "Harvey and Lee," I'm way ahead of you. It's already been ordered.)

[Bill Brown]

In this video of the wallet at the Tippit crime scene, it appears the cop with the wallet is randomly waving his gun and without a care even has it aimed close to the hand of the detective who is pointing something out within the wallet and then when the cop hands over the wallet, he quickly points the gun away and more towards himself.
The most likely scenario imo is that the wallet was being looked at legitimately and also as a bit of a show for the TV camera and thus the cop is a bit flippant with the direction of his gun but when the civilian is given his wallet back, the cop responds correctly by diverting the aim of the gun and away from the direction of this civilian.



BTW, I posted this theory on the old Forum and Gary Mack who became a wise wizard, sent me a PM endorsing my theory.

JohnM

John, I agree with you, 100%.

[Richard Smith]

What also doesn't make sense is that none of the reports from 11/22/63 mentioned the Hidell ID being in the contents of Oswald's wallet. As someone noted earlier on this topic, officer Bentley didn't mention the Hiddell ID when he went on TV that day and described the contents of Oswald's wallet. The whole thing is peculiar.

The film footage and photo from the Tippit crime scene indirectly corroborates the FBI agent's (Barrett?) claim about Oswald's wallet being found before he was arrested (assuming the wallet in the film footage wasn't Tippit's).

What explains the discrepancy? I don't know.

Here's an article from 2013 on the two wallets mystery:

Wallet mystery from Officer Tippit's murder settled after 50 years

DALLAS No other crimes have been more analyzed or scrutinized than what happened in Dallas a half-century ago.

'It's been picked apart for decades,' said Farris Rookstool III, JFK historian and former FBI analyst, 'but the tragedy of this is no one has ever taken the due diligence of time to really put these pieces together until now.'

After five decades, Rookstool is sharing the strongest evidence yet that Lee Harvey Oswald murdered Dallas police Officer J.D. Tippit.

'The wallet puts him definitively at the scene of the crime,' Rookstool said.

Oswald's wallet has been a persistent mystery in recent years one Rookstool started studying. The mysterious billfold first appeared on WFAA in the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

WFAA program director Jay Watson, anchoring live coverage of the assassination, asked Channel 8 photographer Ron Reiland to join him on set and discuss film that Reiland just shot on the Oak Cliff street where Tippit was slain.

'Let's roll the film and we'll narrate it as we go,' Watson said on air.

Reiland, describing each scene to Watson, presumed the wallet seen on the film belonged to Officer Tippit.

'There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is Oswald's wallet,' Rookstool said.

So, Rookstool set out to prove it.

He compared the Channel 8 black-and-white film to Oswald's actual wallet in the National Archives. On each of them, circular snaps are visible, along with metal strips and perhaps the biggest similarity a zipper over the cash compartment.

Oswald's wallet is a different color and has different characteristics than Tippit's.

This month, for the first time, Marie Tippit shared her late husband's wallet with WFAA. Tippit's is black, has a different style snap no metal bar like Oswald's and does not have a zipper over the cash compartment.

A half hour east of Birmingham, Alabama is the only man alive today who saw Oswald's wallet at Tippit's murder scene.

'As I walked up, I happened to not knowingly step in a puddle of blood, which was Tippit's blood,' retired FBI Special Agent Bob Barrett recalled. 'I thought, 'Oh God, what have I done?''

He spent 27 years in the FBI and was asked to go to the Tippit murder scene that day by his friend, Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker.

After arriving at 10th and Patton in North Oak Cliff, Barrett said, he recognized a Dallas police captain thumbing through a billfold.

'He said, 'Bob, you know all the crooks in town, all the hoodlums, etc. You ever heard of a Lee Harvey Oswald?' I said, 'No, I never have.' He said 'How about an Alec Hiddell?' I said, 'No. I never have heard of him either,'' Barrett explained. 'Why would they be asking me questions about Oswald and Hiddell if it wasn't in that wallet?'

In addition, the first Dallas cop on the Tippit crime scene said he actually recovered the wallet.

Sgt. Kenneth Croy, a reserve officer at the time, put it in writing on an 8' x 10' picture for Rookstool.

'First on the scene, recovered Oswald's wallet there, too,' Croy wrote on an image of Tippit's patrol car.

But officially, Dallas police told a different story. The department said it got Oswald's wallet from Oswald himself after his arrest a short time later at the Texas Theatre.

Barrett and Rookstool believe police made that up for the official report because too many officers handled the crucial piece of evidence at the shooting scene.

'They said they took the wallet out of his pocket in the car? That's so much hogwash,' Barrett said. 'That wallet was in [Captain] Westbrook's hand.'

'Bob's in Alabama. Kenneth Croy is in Hamilton, Texas,' Rookstool said. 'They had no relationship with each other than the fate of history put them at the scene of a crime.'

Rookstool says the testimony of Barrett and Croy, Tippit's billfold, and the WFAA film prove that Oswald's wallet was at the scene of the policeman's murder.

More than shell casings and eyewitness recollections, it is the first hard evidence placing Oswald there on that day.

It's significant in tying off a historical loose end and perfecting the record fifty years later.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/wallet-mystery-from-officer-tippits-murder-settled-after-50-years/287-306016477

This boils down to the following.  First, the police would have believed that any discarded wallet found at the crime scene would have been linked to the shooting.  Second, the name associated with the wallet owner would have immediately been broadcast as a potential suspect in the murder.  We know the latter didn't happen.  What does that tell us?  That the "wallet" was not found at the scene.  Whatever it is, the police know the owner is not a suspect.  That leaves a witness wallet or Tippit's citation book. 

[Jon Banks]

This boils down the to the following.  First, the police would have believed that any discarded wallet found at the crime scene would have been linked to the shooting.  Second, the name associated with the wallet owner would have immediately been broadcast as a potential suspect in the murder.  We know the latter didn't happen.  What does that tell us?  That the "wallet" was not found at the scene.  Whatever it is, the police know the owner is not a suspect.  That leaves a witness wallet or Tippit's citation book.

So it's your belief that Agent Barrett and Officer Croy were mistaken?

They very well may have been mistaken but nevertheless, we're stuck with two conflicting accounts of where the Dallas PD gained custody of Oswald's wallet.

Based on the available information, neither of us can conclusively say they were mistaken or lied.

[Michael Capasse]

"First on the scene recovered Oswald's wallet there too."
" K H Croy Sgt. Kenneth Croy DPD Reservve #86"(?)

Makes it clear what was found at the Tippit scene.