If I Had Planned The Conspiracy ...

[John Mytton]

Your obsession with me playing up again, John?

And where exactly did I say that Todd "equated getting legal advice with making him a lawyer"? What Todd said was an appeal to authority. It's as simple as that!

Are you so ignorant that you don't understand that there are also people who know the law without being a lawyer?

Misrepresent much?


• McDonald confirms he gave the pistol to Carroll.
• Carroll confirms he gave the pistol to Hill.

Too bad that Carroll does not confirm that McDonald gave him a pistol.

Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; and then when I got up close enough, I saw a pistol pointing at me so I reached and grabbed the pistol and jerked the pistol away and stuck it In my belt, and then I grabbed Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Who had hold of that pistol at that time?
Mr. CARROLL. I don't know, sir. I just saw the pistol pointing at me and I grabbed it and jerked it away from whoever had it and that's all, and by that time then the handcuffs were put on Oswald.

So, somebody is clearly lying here! Who is it; McDonald or Carroll?

And where exactly did I say that Todd "equated getting legal advice with making him a lawyer"?

HUH? Your very own example "I know a few highly successfull(sic) business men, so, by your reasoning, that makes me a successfull(sic) business man".

So, somebody is clearly lying here! Who is it; McDonald or Carroll?

Double HUH? Neither Police Officer lied!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

HUH? Your very own example "I know a few highly successfull(sic) business men, so, by your reasoning, that makes me a successfull(sic) business man".

Double HUH? Neither Police Officer lied!

JohnM

HUH? Your very own example "I know a few highly successfull(sic) business men, so, by your reasoning, that makes me a successfull(sic) business man".

You forgot to quote the question mark!

Double HUH? Neither Police Officer lied!

Hilarious! So, McDonald can give a revolver to Carroll without Carroll knowing who gave it to him? Are you for real?

Carroll said he grabbed a pistol pointing at him.

Just try to be honest for once, John.

[John Mytton]

Double HUH? Neither Police Officer lied!

Hilarious! So, McDonald can give a revolver to Carroll without Carroll knowing who gave it to him? Are you for real?

Carroll said he grabbed a pistol pointing at him.

Just try to be honest for once, John.

Triple HUH? For McDonald to be proved to have lied, then you need evidence that Carroll said he received the pistol from Officer X or perpetrator Y.

• McDonald saw who he gave the pistol to, Officer Carroll.

• Carroll understandably being focused on a pistol pointed at him didn't see who was holding the pistol.

As I said NOBODY lied.

The following images of Oswald's recreated arrest come from the Ruby and Oswald telemovie and the JFK movie. Another interesting observation is how many purely innocent men act this aggressively to an approaching cop and how many would then use their concealed weapon in an attempt to kill this Officer? And just one more thought, if the Dallas Police was involved with the conspiracy then this would be the perfect time to eliminate the "Patsy" but instead, the Dallas Police did everything in their power to keep Oswald alive and gave Oswald the chance to talk to the media and even went one step further and let Oswald have a midnight press conference! Hooray for the Dallas Police!





JohnM

[Jake Maxwell]

Here... give this one a try:

Yes, Earl Warren (1891-1974), the 14th Chief Justice of the United States, was a Freemason. He was active in Freemasonry, rising to become the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of California.

Yes, J. Edgar Hoover, the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), was indeed a dedicated Freemason. He was initiated as a Master Mason on November 9, 1920, at Federal Lodge No. 1 in Washington, D.C. Over his lifetime, Hoover received several prestigious honors within the Masonic fraternity. In 1955, he was coroneted a 33rd Degree Inspector General Honorary by the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Southern Masonic Jurisdiction of the United States (AASR-SMJ).

Yes, Bill Decker, who served as Sheriff of Dallas County from 1956 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons. He was affiliated with Dallas Lodge No. 760, where he was listed among notable members in the field of law enforcement.
Additionally, Decker was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, indicating a high level of achievement within the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry.

Yes, Lyndon B. Johnson was a Freemason. He was initiated into Johnson City Lodge No. 561 in Johnson City, Texas, in 1937. However, his connection to Freemasonry was somewhat limited, and he never became deeply involved in the organization. Johnson was reportedly more focused on his political career, and while he was a member, he did not prominently participate in Masonic activities.

Yes, Jesse E. Curry, who served as Chief of the Dallas Police Department from 1960 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons.

Yes, Arlen Specter, who served as a U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania from 1981 to 2011, was affiliated with Freemasonry. According to the Masonic Library and Museum of Pennsylvania, he is listed among notable Freemasons from Philadelphia.
Additionally, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania's Freemason Magazine mentions that Specter received citations from the office of Pennsylvania U.S. Senator, Arlen Specter, among other representatives.

And check out these Warren Commission Freemasons:
Allen Dulles: The former CIA Director and a commission member, Dulles was associated with the Freemasons. His involvement in intelligence and international affairs was complemented by his participation in various fraternal organizations.

John McCloy: Serving as the High Commissioner for Germany post-World War II, McCloy was linked to Freemasonry. His roles in both the public and private sectors were influenced by his affiliations with such organizations.

Gerald Ford: Before becoming President, Ford was a U.S. Congressman and a member of the Warren Commission. He was initiated into Freemasonry in 1949, reflecting his engagement with fraternal societies.

Hale Boggs: A Congressman from Louisiana, Boggs was known to have connections with Freemasonry, which influenced his political and personal life.

Richard Russell: Serving as a Senator from Georgia, Russell's involvement with Freemasonry is documented, highlighting his commitment to its principles.

John Cooper: A Senator from Kentucky, Cooper's affiliation with Freemasonry is noted, reflecting the organization's influence in his personal and professional endeavors.

[Jake Maxwell]

Here... give this one a try:

Yes, Earl Warren (1891-1974), the 14th Chief Justice of the United States, was a Freemason. He was active in Freemasonry, rising to become the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of California.

Yes, J. Edgar Hoover, the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), was indeed a dedicated Freemason. He was initiated as a Master Mason on November 9, 1920, at Federal Lodge No. 1 in Washington, D.C. Over his lifetime, Hoover received several prestigious honors within the Masonic fraternity. In 1955, he was coroneted a 33rd Degree Inspector General Honorary by the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Southern Masonic Jurisdiction of the United States (AASR-SMJ).

Yes, Bill Decker, who served as Sheriff of Dallas County from 1956 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons. He was affiliated with Dallas Lodge No. 760, where he was listed among notable members in the field of law enforcement.
Additionally, Decker was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, indicating a high level of achievement within the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry.

Yes, Lyndon B. Johnson was a Freemason. He was initiated into Johnson City Lodge No. 561 in Johnson City, Texas, in 1937. However, his connection to Freemasonry was somewhat limited, and he never became deeply involved in the organization. Johnson was reportedly more focused on his political career, and while he was a member, he did not prominently participate in Masonic activities.

Yes, Jesse E. Curry, who served as Chief of the Dallas Police Department from 1960 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons.

Yes, Arlen Specter, who served as a U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania from 1981 to 2011, was affiliated with Freemasonry. According to the Masonic Library and Museum of Pennsylvania, he is listed among notable Freemasons from Philadelphia.
Additionally, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania's Freemason Magazine mentions that Specter received citations from the office of Pennsylvania U.S. Senator, Arlen Specter, among other representatives.

And check out these Warren Commission Freemasons:
Allen Dulles: The former CIA Director and a commission member, Dulles was associated with the Freemasons. His involvement in intelligence and international affairs was complemented by his participation in various fraternal organizations.

John McCloy: Serving as the High Commissioner for Germany post-World War II, McCloy was linked to Freemasonry. His roles in both the public and private sectors were influenced by his affiliations with such organizations.

Gerald Ford: Before becoming President, Ford was a U.S. Congressman and a member of the Warren Commission. He was initiated into Freemasonry in 1949, reflecting his engagement with fraternal societies.

Hale Boggs: A Congressman from Louisiana, Boggs was known to have connections with Freemasonry, which influenced his political and personal life.

Richard Russell: Serving as a Senator from Georgia, Russell's involvement with Freemasonry is documented, highlighting his commitment to its principles.

John Cooper: A Senator from Kentucky, Cooper's affiliation with Freemasonry is noted, reflecting the organization's influence in his personal and professional endeavors.

And this one...

Yes, Abraham Zapruder, known for filming the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, was a Freemason and held the 33rd degree in the Scottish Rite. He was also associated with the Shriners, a Masonic organization.

[Mitch Todd]

I've known plenty of attorneys in my life

You sound like somebody who says "I know the law" because a guy I know is a lawyer". Do you not understand just how stupid that statement is?

I know a few highly successfull business men, so, by your reasoning, that makes me a successfull business man, right?

McDonald testified that he gave the gun to Carroll while the scrum was going on

No, he didn't.

Carroll said that he grabbed the gun from someone who was holding the weapon out from inside the scrum.

Which does not match the claim you made about McDonald and it demonstrates that Carroll didn't know who that somebody was.

Those stories match, even if not perfectly.

No, they don't match at all.

Carroll said he took the gun to the patrol car and gave it to Hill.

True, to some extend. Carroll give Hill a (not "the") revolver and told him he was told that it was the revolver taken from Oswald. Details matter!

Hill and Carroll together drove back to City Hall and took the gun to the Personnel Bureau office where they wrote out reports on the arrest. Hill, Carroll, McDonald, and Bentley put their ID mark on the revolver when they gave it over to Det. Baker in the Homicide office.

The problem is that Hill (and Carroll) did not take the revolver to the Personnel Bureau office straight away. In fact, Hill, carried it around (showing it to the media) for more than an hour and then presented a (not "the") revolver to the men at the Personnel Bureau office.

That is a valid chain of possession, no matter what you seem to want to think.

No it isn't! A chain of custody is unequivocal. This one isn't! You've got Carroll giving Hill a revolver, which he does not know from whom it was taken and saying to Hill he was told it was Oswald's revolver. Then you have Hill who (as the official story goes) carries a revolver on his person for no particular reason instead of delivering it to the evidence room upon arrival at the police station. And then, more than an hour after his arrival, Hill produces a revolver to other officers who mark it. Btw some of those officers als marked the grey jacket despite the fact that they were never part of that chain of custody.

What you have here is no chain of custody.... it's Swiss cheese!

MW: You sound like somebody who says "I know the law" because a guy I know is a lawyer". Do you not understand just how stupid that statement is?

What I said is that I've asked lawyers I've known about this particular  issue. Somehow you think it's "stupid" ask a lawyer about a legal issue, which goes to show who's really acting stupidly here.

And what I said about the pistol's known chain of possession is correct. Mytton's already set you right on McDonald giving the gun to Carroll, and your notion that Hill somehow disappeared with it the reappeared is similarly incorrect.

[Dan O'meara]

Here... give this one a try:

Yes, Earl Warren (1891-1974), the 14th Chief Justice of the United States, was a Freemason. He was active in Freemasonry, rising to become the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of California.

Yes, J. Edgar Hoover, the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), was indeed a dedicated Freemason. He was initiated as a Master Mason on November 9, 1920, at Federal Lodge No. 1 in Washington, D.C. Over his lifetime, Hoover received several prestigious honors within the Masonic fraternity. In 1955, he was coroneted a 33rd Degree Inspector General Honorary by the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Southern Masonic Jurisdiction of the United States (AASR-SMJ).

Yes, Bill Decker, who served as Sheriff of Dallas County from 1956 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons. He was affiliated with Dallas Lodge No. 760, where he was listed among notable members in the field of law enforcement.
Additionally, Decker was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, indicating a high level of achievement within the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry.

Yes, Lyndon B. Johnson was a Freemason. He was initiated into Johnson City Lodge No. 561 in Johnson City, Texas, in 1937. However, his connection to Freemasonry was somewhat limited, and he never became deeply involved in the organization. Johnson was reportedly more focused on his political career, and while he was a member, he did not prominently participate in Masonic activities.

Yes, Jesse E. Curry, who served as Chief of the Dallas Police Department from 1960 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons.

Yes, Arlen Specter, who served as a U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania from 1981 to 2011, was affiliated with Freemasonry. According to the Masonic Library and Museum of Pennsylvania, he is listed among notable Freemasons from Philadelphia.
Additionally, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania's Freemason Magazine mentions that Specter received citations from the office of Pennsylvania U.S. Senator, Arlen Specter, among other representatives.

And check out these Warren Commission Freemasons:
Allen Dulles: The former CIA Director and a commission member, Dulles was associated with the Freemasons. His involvement in intelligence and international affairs was complemented by his participation in various fraternal organizations.

John McCloy: Serving as the High Commissioner for Germany post-World War II, McCloy was linked to Freemasonry. His roles in both the public and private sectors were influenced by his affiliations with such organizations.

Gerald Ford: Before becoming President, Ford was a U.S. Congressman and a member of the Warren Commission. He was initiated into Freemasonry in 1949, reflecting his engagement with fraternal societies.

Hale Boggs: A Congressman from Louisiana, Boggs was known to have connections with Freemasonry, which influenced his political and personal life.

Richard Russell: Serving as a Senator from Georgia, Russell's involvement with Freemasonry is documented, highlighting his commitment to its principles.

John Cooper: A Senator from Kentucky, Cooper's affiliation with Freemasonry is noted, reflecting the organization's influence in his personal and professional endeavors.

You can add David Harold Byrd to this list. The owner of the building from which the assassination occurred and close friend of the man who benefited most from JFK's death - Lyndon Johnson - was, according to FBI files, "a Mason (32nd degree, Shriner)". He also had a mutual fan club going with Hoover, with whom he corresponded many times.