Tippit Debate

[Tom Graves]

What about that axiom that the simple solution is probably the correct one.? So isn’t the proposition that Oswald was double timing a simple way to make the timeline work out so that Markams 1:06-7 sighting and Bowleys 1:10 watch and Calloway’s  estimate match up fairly well with the 1:15 DOA by the emergency doctor?

And double timing is certainly a plausible action that an anxious, upset , worried Oswald would do if his intention was to leave TSBD and get back to his boarding house asap to get a revolver?

It’s really an argument about why Oswald was so upset anxious paranoid etc, that he felt compelled to return to his boarding house as his 1st priority rather than to seek out his wife and children and assure their safety.

LN : this is what a crazy person who just shot the President would do so it’s not surprising that he shot Tippit on his way to see a movie.

CT :Oswald’s paranoia was for other reason. It could be from indirect involvement in some way or suspicion about something or someone whom Oswald knew  like Jack Ruby. So Oswald’s decision to prioritize boarding house was to get the revolver and then where Oswald exactly was headed may not have originally been the theater.

Conclusion: Double timing is the simple way to make the timeline work allowing Oswald to have shot Tippit at 1:08. Paranoia is a good reason Oswald was double timing. Prioritizing boarding house over family therefore was a self preservation act to get a revolver to deal with the most immediate threat perceived by a paranoid Oswald which was that he might himself be the next victim due to his association with characters like Jack Ruby or that the FBI or CIA had set him up. The shooting of Tippit therefore does not de facto mean that Oswald was the JFK assassin.

If you'd just shot JFK from the TSBD and gotten away, would you walk fast / jog for about a mile through a residential neighborhood and risk bringing attention to yourself?

[Zeon Mason]

I should clarify that the double timing could have been periodic as  opposed to consistent, so that at times Oswald was just walking.

If the  double timing was  periodically just at times of traveling to the bus and then to taxi and then from taxi to house, it’s possible that Oswald could have left his house as early as 12:55 and thus he could have walked the distance of 0.9 mile to 10th/Patton without any more double timing.

There were lots of people running around in Dealey plaza so Oswald periodically jogging is not so implausible.

So I guess I am a CT that agrees with LNs that it’s possible that Oswald could have shot  Tippit just as I agree with LNs that it’s possible that at Z224 a single bullet is impacting both JFK and JC.

Where I disagree is about why Oswald shot Tippit and that CE 399 was the single bullet.

My opinion is that Oswald was NOT the assassin , but that he DID get paranoid by the horror of the assassination , thought himself to be in imminent danger ,and is the reason he went to boarding house 1st, to get his revolver.

My opinion about the CE 399 bullet is that it was a bullet that replaced the bullet that hit JFK and JC because the original bullet recovered from JC was a different  shaped  bullet (conical shaped) hence not a ball shaped 6.5 mm MC bullet.

[John Iacoletti]

If the  double timing was  periodically just at times of traveling to the bus and then to taxi and then from taxi to house, it’s possible that Oswald could have left his house as early as 12:55 and thus he could have walked the distance of 0.9 mile to 10th/Patton without any more double timing.

It's more than 0.9 miles, because the witnesses said the man was walking west on 10th towards Patton.

[Bill Brown]

It's more than 0.9 miles, because the witnesses said the man was walking west on 10th towards Patton.

It's completely possible that Oswald was walking west on Tenth and arrive at the Tippit encounter at 1:16.

Speculation, but possible:

12:33 - Leaves the Depository
12:40 - Boards the McWatters bus
12:44 - Departs the bus
12:48 - Enters Whaley's cab
12:53/12:54 - Exits Whaley's cab at Beckley & Neely
12:59 - Arrive at rooming house
1:00 - Leave rooming house ("Long enough to grab a jacket and put it on" - Earlene Roberts)
1:01 - Begin walking south on Beckley form the bus stop outside rooming house
1:12 - Arrive at Tenth & Patton for the first time
1:14 - Walking east on Tenth, arrive at curve on Tenth Street, see Sherriff's Deputy Unit 109 east of the curve and do an about-face, now walking west on Tenth
1:16 - Encounter Tippit

[Zeon Mason]

If Oswald was walking south on Beckley then he changed to going east on 8th st then southeast on Crawford (which is the most direct way to get to the Marsalis Zoo). That’s going southeast away from the theater and then if he cut over to Patton st means Oswald turned going eastward which is even more going away from the theatre.

If  Will Fritz notes are true (?)and  Oswald had stated he was going to see the movies, then Beckley is probably the most likely route Oswald would taken after leaving the boarding room.

For some reason Oswald changed  direction and started heading southeast towards the Marsalis Zoo park by taking Crawford . He then changed direction again when he turned east to cut over to Patton st probably using 10th st.

So Oswald must have crossed over Patton going east on 10th st some distance when Tippit came down 10th from the west? And that caused Oswald to about face abruptly and go back westward towards Patton again?

If Tippit had not been in this area and Oswald had continued going east along 10th then he was apparently going somewhere else other than the theater or the Zoo. Coincidentally , he would have been getting closer to Jack Rubys apartment.

I can only speculate that perhaps a police car drove down Beckley st when Oswald was going south on Beckley and that’s what caused Oswald to change course to head to the Zoo by cutting over to Crawford.

Why did Oswald to give up continuing traveling southeast on Crawford (heading to the Zoo ) and change direction again  heading east to cut over to Patton st?

There’s another speculative route Oswald could have taken if he was intending to try avoid police cars and that’s  to go east immediately after leaving the boarding house. This route would be tge the one to take if going to the Zoo or to Rubys apartment by using secondary roads such as Patton.

But then Oswald would have been likely seen going south on Patton st by Markam would he not?

Or if not then Oswald going south on Patton would have to turn east on 10th and be heading east some distance when Tippit approached from the west on 10th causing Oswald to about face.

So it’s the same question either route, where was Oswald headed for when he was going east on 10 th st after having either crossed over Patton (or turned at Patton ) to go eastward on 10th?

I think therefore that Jack Rubys apartment is a plausible alternative , especially if Oswald was hearing police car sirens or had spotted at least one police car when he came out of his boarding room. ( possibly the car that Earlene Robert’s had seen and heard?)

[John Iacoletti]

There is no evidence whatsoever that anybody did an "about-face".  If he had, witnesses would have seen him pass by twice.

[Zeon Mason]

 Mr.I , that seems to be the conclusion I was going to eventually arrive at, except for the possibility of the timing of Markam being too late to have seen Oswald cross over Patton st going east on 10th.

But if that’s the.case then Oswald had to get to 10th st /Patton st intersection much earlier than 1:07 and it’s already rather a problem getting him there by 1:07 ( requiring a lot of intermittent double timing) a method  which LN Tom
has  questioned as to  be unlikely for someone to do who does not wish to draw attention to himself.

So I guess that’s why the LN Bill solution is to avoid the whole 1:06-1:07 timeline of Markam and Bowley as unreliable because their watches are 7 minutes slow (cause they are wind up watches ? ) and instead just go with the DPD clock which apparently is the only correct clock?

This of course requires also suggesting the emergency room clock was 10 minutes slow and thus the doctors DOA time of 1:15 should have really been 1:25.

But the witnesses Mr.I? There’s too many of them picking Oswald as the man they saw so unless it’s an imposter , then somehow Oswald got to 10th st east of Patton st some distance east of the intersection and was walking west to the intersection when he was seen by Markam and followed by Tippit.

Ruling out “about facing” or double timing , and the imposter theory , then either its accept DOD clock time and reject all the other clocks, or else Oswald had to have been given a ride by somebody or was using a bicycle or skateboard between bus, cab, boarding room and then 10th st east of Patton.