T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17

[Martin Weidmann]

Huh?? Firstly, You do realize that the majority of times that you rely on mostly comes from eyewitness testimony? DOH! And your star eyewitness was Markham, who you Martin in the past, have not been exactly too kind to her state of mental health!

Secondly, Oswald wasn't in some dark alley identified by a single eyewitness, but was out in the middle of the day, identified by not only one or two or three or even four eyewitnesses but there was a plethora of almost a DOZEN eyewitnesses.

Thirdly, the Police time on the radio was based on constant time checks and was actually the only officially calibrated time! And Tippit's doctor's report was clearly stated as Tippit arriving as DOA(Dead on Arrival) meaning the actual time of death, you do realize, happened some time before he arrived.

Fourthly, Let's as you suggest throw out all the eyewitness testimony and instead rely on the physical evidence.

A. we are left with the shells at the crime scene that was seen discarded by Tippit's murderer and were exclusively matched to Oswald's revolver.



B. Nicol a ballistics expert exclusively matched one of the bullets in Tippit's body to Oswald's revolver and the following proof that Nicol forensically photographed, I believe still to this day hasn't been debunked.



Mr. NICOL. Due to mutilation, I was not able to determine whether 605, 604, and 602 were fired in the same weapon. There were similarity of class characteristics-that is to say, there is nothing evident that would exclude the weapon. However, due to mutilation and apparent variance between the size of the barrel and the size of the projectile, the reproduction of individual characteristics was not good, and therefore I was unable to arrive at a conclusion beyond that of saying that the few lines that were found would indicate a modest possibility. But I would not by any means say that I could be positive. However, on specimen 602--I'm sorry--603, which I have designated as Q-502, I found sufficient individual characteristics to lead me to the conclusion that that projectile was fired in the same weapon that fired the projectiles in 606.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is to the exclusion of all other weapons?
Mr. NICOL. Yes, sir.

C. Oswald's zippered jacket was discovered close to the crime scene in a car park which the gunman was seen entering, and this jacket was actually filmed at the time and considering the entirety of the evidence, leaves any possibility of the Jacket being planted, being not only comical but completely impossible!. Earlene Roberts confirmed that Oswald was seen zipping up his jacket when he left the Rooming House and Oswald was arrested without the zippered jacket and Marina confirmed that the jacket that was discovered in the parking lot was owned by Lee Harvey Oswald!







D. When arrested Oswald pulled the exact same weapon that Oswald was sent and the same weapon which killed Tippit and the same weapon that Oswald attempted to kill more Police Officers and this is the man who you want to believe is innocent by fabricating some outlandish fantasy scenario? Really?



Martin BTW, next time don't bring a knife to a gunfight! LOL!

JohnM

I'm going to ignore your usual nonsense and will only reply to two of your comments;

the Police time on the radio was based on constant time checks and was actually the only officially calibrated time!

Utter BS. The clocks used by the dispatchers were not calibrated at all and the time calls were in no way accurate. All you have to do is use a stopwatch and time the times between two calls. Some calls only had 45 seconds between them.


And Tippit's doctor's report was clearly stated as Tippit arriving as DOA(Dead on Arrival) meaning the actual time of death, you do realize, happened some time before he arrived.

More BS.... Davenport confirmed that when Tippit was brought into the hospital the doctors checked for sign of life and when they found none they declared him D.O.A. at 1:15.
But if you want to argue that Tippit was already dead before he arrived at the hospital at 1:15, that's fine by me.

Btw, interesting photo.



Can you explain how there are initials on the jacket from police officers that were never part of the chain of custody and why the initials of the police officers that actually were in the chain of custody are not there?

A uniformed policeman saw a jacket (described as white in DPD radio communications) and showed it to Captain Westbrook. The Captain had just come from 10th street and wanted to move on to the Texas Theater.
So, he gave the jacket to another uniformed policeman and left. He could not identify either police officer. Nobody knows what happened to the jacket after Westbrook left, until it somehow showed up at the DPD HQ where it magically had turned gray.
Go figure.....

[John Mytton]

I'm going to ignore your usual nonsense and will only reply to two of your comments;

the Police time on the radio was based on constant time checks and was actually the only officially calibrated time!

Utter BS. The clocks used by the dispatchers were not calibrated at all and the time calls were in no way accurate. All you have to do is use a stopwatch and time the times between two calls. Some calls only had 45 seconds between them.


And Tippit's doctor's report was clearly stated as Tippit arriving as DOA(Dead on Arrival) meaning the actual time of death, you do realize, happened some time before he arrived.

More BS.... Davenport confirmed that when Tippit was brought into the hospital the doctors checked for sign of life and when they found none they declared him D.O.A. at 1:15.
But if you want to argue that Tippit was already dead before he arrived at the hospital at 1:15, that's fine by me.

I'm going to ignore your usual nonsense and will only reply to two of your comments;

No problem, I understand that Conspiracy Theorist's have the same aversion to the evidence in this case as a Vampire has to garlic!

Utter BS. The clocks used by the dispatchers were not calibrated at all and the time calls were in no way accurate. All you have to do is use a stopwatch and time the times between two calls. Some calls only had 45 seconds between them.

We know that at 12:30 that the Police radio time was the same as the Hertz public clock and I'm guessing that you are going to pathetically suggest that the Hertz public clock and/or the Dallas Police tapes were way off? YAWN!



And since we know that the totally random time at 12:30 was corroborated and spot on, we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.

More BS.... Davenport confirmed that when Tippit was brought into the hospital the doctors checked for sign of life and when they found none they declared him D.O.A. at 1:15.
But if you want to argue that Tippit was already dead before he arrived at the hospital at 1:15, that's fine by me.

Thanks for confirming that Tippit showed no sign of life when he arrived at the hospital and IIRC, the police officer also said that the Doctors tried bravely to put life back into Tippit.
And all this simply means that since Tippit arrived DOA, the Official Time of Death could NOT have been when Tippit arrived at the hospital because that's scientifically impossible, but was estimated before hand at 1:15, which btw perfectly corresponds to the Dallas Police tapes!

Also, the Ambulance was inquiring some time after the 1:19 time check and wanted to know the address of where Tippit was shot.



Try again!

JohnM

[John Mytton]

How can I be any more clear?  Let's debate the shooting death of J.D. Tippit and Oswald's relationship to that death.  The entire case, Callaway, Butler, loading the body and everything else.  You'd be worthy, unlike someone like Iacoletti who would spend the entire debate saying things like "Oswald's gun LOL".  I know you'd at least discuss the case, which I can respect.

You. (Martin Weidmann)
Me. (Bill Brown)
Tippit. (R.I.P.)
Oswald. (Scum)
Youtube.
Skype.
This week.
Next week.
Recorded live and then posted here for all to listen to.
Cool?

Hey Bill, it looks like Martin is posting again and seems to want to debate this subject, so this idea of yours sounds really neat.

How about it Martin, how about you get on Skype and debate Bill and show us all why Oswald was "innocent" of shooting Tippit!

JohnM

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Hey Bill, it looks like Martin is posting again and seems to want to debate this subject, so this idea of yours sounds really neat.

How about it Martin, how about you get on Skype and debate Bill and show us all why Oswald was "innocent" of shooting Tippit!

JohnM

But we know the routine: he will say the eyewitness accounts must be dismissed because they are unreliable; the physical evidence must be waved away because it's "possibly" faked or manufactured; and the circumstantial evidence is simply lone nutter speculation. That debate will take all of 15 seconds.

So why is here? Using his arguments how can we reconstruct what happened in Dallas? Or really in any event? Historians should cease their work, police investigations ended since everything they do can be based on "possibly" erroneous information. That "possibly" covers a lot of ground, doesn't it?

Notice again that the above standards are never applied to the conspiracy theories. I had a thread on the Mexico City/Oswald double allegation. Did he challenge the conspiracy claims, that Oswald was impersonated? No, he was upset that the claim was refuted by lone nutters and used to implicate Oswald in the assassination.

[Martin Weidmann]

No problem, I understand that Conspiracy Theorist's have the same aversion to the evidence in this case as a Vampire has to garlic!

We know that at 12:30 that the Police radio time was the same as the Hertz public clock and I'm guessing that you are going to pathetically suggest that the Hertz public clock and/or the Dallas Police tapes were way off? YAWN!



And since we know that the totally random time at 12:30 was corroborated and spot on, we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.



Thanks for confirming that Tippit showed no sign of life when he arrived at the hospital and IIRC, the police officer also said that the Doctors tried bravely to put life back into Tippit.
And all this simply means that since Tippit arrived DOA, the Official Time of Death could NOT have been when Tippit arrived at the hospital because that's scientifically impossible, but was estimated before hand at 1:15, which btw perfectly corresponds to the Dallas Police tapes!

Also, the Ambulance was inquiring some time after the 1:19 time check and wanted to know the address of where Tippit was shot.



Try again!

JohnM

And since we know that the totally random time at 12:30 was corroborated and spot on, we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.



Hilarious. There is not a shred of proof that the clock on top of the TSBD was correct to the second or even minute.


we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.

Really? I think you mean after 1:16.

But how did you come to this conclusion when the DPD recordings were not continuously and there was a break of several minutes 1:11 or 1:12?

Thanks for confirming that Tippit showed no sign of life when he arrived at the hospital and IIRC, the police officer also said that the Doctors tried bravely to put life back into Tippit.
And all this simply means that since Tippit arrived DOA, the Official Time of Death could NOT have been when Tippit arrived at the hospital because that's scientifically impossible, but was estimated before hand at 1:15, which btw perfectly corresponds to the Dallas Police tapes!

More BS... the DPD tapes do not give a time for Tippit being killed. And yes, he most likely died at the scene at 10th street before the ambulance arrived there. Having said that, his passing was formally confirmed by the doctors at the hospital who wrote down the time of 1:15 for the DOA. In order for Tippit to get to the hospital at 1:15 he must have been shot at least three to four minutes earlier, or do you perhaps believe that he was transported to the hospital on a high speed magic carpet?

Also, the Ambulance was inquiring some time after the 1:19 time check and wanted to know the address of where Tippit was shot.

According to the highly questionable DPD radio time stamps which does not explain how Tippit's ambulance could have arrived at the hospital at or even before 1:15, as confirmed by several police and hospital reports.

Care to try again?

[Martin Weidmann]

Hey Bill, it looks like Martin is posting again and seems to want to debate this subject, so this idea of yours sounds really neat.

How about it Martin, how about you get on Skype and debate Bill and show us all why Oswald was "innocent" of shooting Tippit!

JohnM

Where did I ever say that Oswald was innocent (or guilty for that matter) of shooting Tippit?

I don't give a damn if he did it or not. I just examine the evidence that the WC used to claim that he was guilty and am finding it highly dubious.

You might not like that, and claim that my posts show that I believe Oswald was innocent but that's just the most pathetic LN argument you frequently use.

[Martin Weidmann]

But we know the routine: he will say the eyewitness accounts must be dismissed because they are unreliable; the physical evidence must be waved away because it's "possibly" faked or manufactured; and the circumstantial evidence is simply lone nutter speculation. That debate will take all of 15 seconds.

So why is here? Using his arguments how can we reconstruct what happened in Dallas? Or really in any event? Historians should cease their work, police investigations ended since everything they do can be based on "possibly" erroneous information. That "possibly" covers a lot of ground, doesn't it?

Notice again that the above standards are never applied to the conspiracy theories. I had a thread on the Mexico City/Oswald double allegation. Did he challenge the conspiracy claims, that Oswald was impersonated? No, he was upset that the claim was refuted by lone nutters and used to implicate Oswald in the assassination.

Stop being histerical. Instead of constantly complaining about people who disagree with you, why don't you try for once to discuss evidence honestly and with an open mind?

But we know the routine: he will say the eyewitness accounts must be dismissed because they are unreliable

I never said anything of the kind. But eyewitness account do need corroboration. You simply can not rely on what one eyewitness says. If five people watch a car accident, you will get five different accounts. That's how it works, regardless if you like it or not>

the physical evidence must be waved away because it's "possibly" faked or manufactured;

Wrong again. Physical evidence needs to be autheticated before it can be accepted.

and the circumstantial evidence is simply lone nutter speculation.

Once again totally wrong. Circumstantial evidence is always specultion. It is has nothing to do with lone nutters!

The biggest problem with trying to discuss this case with an LN is the simple fact that just about every LN will refuse to concede anything that does not compute with their precious "evidence".

Can you, for example, accept that it is at least somewhat concerning that a jacket described as being white in several DPD radio broadcast by officers who actually saw it in full sunlight, became gray as soon as it resurfaced at DPD HQ with initials on it of officers who were never involved in the chain of custody? I seriously doubt it.

I, on the other hand, have no problem accepting that the BY photos are most likely real and that Oswald's departure from the TSBD doesn't bode well for him not being involved in some way.

You can not have a discussion when one party ignores and dismisses what the other says and just keeps on repeating his own talking points without (for the most part) backing them up with actual evidence.

Btw I don't expect an honest answer from you.