The 3 Minute Lie

[Dan O'meara]

The topic of this thread is the 3 minute Lie both Shelley and Lovelady told the WC during their testimonies.
Both men were basically testifying that Truly and Baker were still outside the TSBD building at least three minutes after the shooting.
This is an easily disprovable lie as we have the Darnell footage which shows Baker reaching the area of the front steps within seconds of the assassination.
It is also proved a lie by the Truly/Baker time trials which had both men entering the building within seconds of the last shot.
The Nutters who believe Shelley and Lovelady didn't lie must accept that the Darnell footage is fake and the Truly/Baker time trials were fake. They must also accept that the encounter with Oswald in the second floor lunchroom 75 seconds after the assassination was also fake and that Oswald was lying to his interrogators when he mentioned it or that his interrogators were lying when they reported Oswald referring to it.
They must also believe the testimony of Victoria Adams is a pack of lies and that Sandra Styles and Dorothy Garner are also liars.
Nutters don't think things through because they think what they're told to think.

So, let's assume the Darnell footage is real, let's assume the Truly/Baker time trials were accurate, let's assume Adams, Styles, Garner, Truly, Baker, and those interrogators who reported Oswald's encounter with Baker aren't all liars.
Let's assume the only people lying are Shelley and Lovelady.
We have the following scenario -
The shots are fired.
Before the limo even reaches the Underpass Adams decides to get downstairs to find out what's going on. She turns to Styles and says, to paraphrase, "Let's go!". Baker sees the pigeons flying off the roof and decides he needs to get to the top of the TSBD building. He pulls up and races towards the TSBD steps, He enters the lobby, followed by Shelley and Lovelady who make their way past him as he tries to find out how to get up the building. Truly shows up to help him and as they are chatting in the lobby, Shelley and Lovelady make their way to the back of the first floor.
Adams and Styles hit the first floor approximately 40 seconds after the last shot, Adams calls out to Shelley and Lovelady about the President but they ignore her. Adams and Styles exit the back door and seconds later Baker and Truly arrive in the same area, where Baker reports seeing two white men just hanging out in that area seconds after the shooting.
Adams and Styles make their way round the building, Baker and Truly make their way up the building.
In this scenario the testimonies of everyone other than Shelley and Lovelady makes sense.
The time trials make sense.
The Darnell footage makes sense.
The Dillard picture makes sense.
The Stroud document makes sense.
This mass of interlocking evidence makes sense when we accept the obvious - Shelley and Truly lied about their movements after the assassination.

[Jack Nessan]

Oh dear.
What a sad and confused little post this is.
Really not sure why you bother as you constantly end up looking a bit foolish.Don't you remember Jack, it was six and counting regarding the 'untruth' you were telling about how Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett had made statements that refuted Adams' testimony. I simply asked you to provide these statements but you couldn't do that because they don't exist. Rather than admit you'd made it all up you had to keep avoiding the simple question over and over again, making you appear even more silly than if you'd just owned up.
Because you don't know what you're talking about you end up making silly statements and painting yourself into a corner.
And here we are again.
I've asked you a simple question knowing that whatever answer you give is going to make you look foolish. You must have figured that out as well which is why you refuse to answer such a simple question.
If you don't believe me, just answer the question.
So, for the FIFTH time - how long do you think it took Gloria to reach the front steps?

  Wow!!
Even for you this is a next level senior moment.
It appears I'm going to have to hold your hand through this one.
Look at my quotation again. Read it slowly. It says that the Darnell footage shows Baker "reaching the foot of the TSBD steps seconds after the shooting".
Reaching the foot
Don't you understand?
There is no mention of Baker "running into the building", as you put it.
Do you understand?
And have you forgotten already - it was you who was saying that the Darnell footage showed Baker entering the building, not me!
It wasn't that long ago.
Here, let me show you the quote, see if it jogs your memory. It's from Reply#339 on the "Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview" thread:

Why does this even matter? Baker entering the TSBD is on film and is a known time event. Adams and Styles "immediately" turned out to be a number of minutes.

Don't you remember, I responded by pointing out what a poor grasp of the evidence you have. What an understatement that was.

 
Oh, brother.
This is a summary of Shelley's affidavit in which he states very clearly that he went back inside the building.
Just do some basic research and you wouldn't make such a fool of yourself,
Here is a link to the affidavit, all you have to do is read it:
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/
Are you capable of any kind of thought?

Don't you remember Jack, it was six and counting regarding the 'untruth' you were telling about how Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett

Actually, I do remember. It had nothing to do with Harkness, Sawyer, and Barnett. Stop trying to lie your way through this, it was all about Calvery. It is hard to take you seriously when you can't be honest about the little things. That is a lie you are telling because those officers completely refuted your whole fantasy story. Harkness, Sawyer, and Barnett give a factual time stamped accounting of the exterior of the TSBD after the shooting, and those timestamps completely refute everything you have posted. No number of false statements on your part can change that.

So, for the FIFTH time - how long do you think it took Gloria to reach the front steps?

Here are your last three fourth time counting posts: All the fourth time. All about Calvery. You can't even be honest about something as simple as this. That explains all the nonsense being posted.

Reply 10- Now then, for the fourth time - how long do you think it took Gloria to reach the steps after the shooting?

Reply 14- For the fourth time - how long do you think it took Gloria to reach the front steps of the TSBD building after the shots?



Reply 16- For the fourth time - how long do you think it took Gloria to reach the front steps?

The last one had emojis with it that look like a post maybe from an adolescent girl. Typical of how you think.

There is no mention of Baker "running into the building", as you put it.
Do you understand?

Understand completely. Now you are stating Baker, Truly, Shelley, and Lovelady all lied about Baker and Truly entering the building, because you can’t understand how they got there, because the Darnell film does not show it.

This is a summary of Shelley's affidavit in which he states very clearly that he went back inside the building.

Oddly for someone who is always making the claim of a superior knowledgeable about the correlation of all these statements to be completely evade this post. Have another try at it.

In Shelley’s and Lovelady’s affidavits there is no mention of Adams and Styles or Baker and Truly. In Calvery’s affidavit there is no mention of Shelley and Lovelady or Baker and Truly. Does that make her a liar as well? Lovelady does not mention Calvery at all. So, if he mentions them in their WC testimonies that makes them liars too? Are you even remotely aware of how many witnesses have similar testimonies? So, exactly what is your point and how does that make them standout as being different than all the other witnesses? How does that prove a 3 minute lie? A lie you seem to be distancing yourself from with every post.

[Jack Nessan]

The topic of this thread is the 3 minute Lie both Shelley and Lovelady told the WC during their testimonies.
Both men were basically testifying that Truly and Baker were still outside the TSBD building at least three minutes after the shooting.
This is an easily disprovable lie as we have the Darnell footage which shows Baker reaching the area of the front steps within seconds of the assassination.
It is also proved a lie by the Truly/Baker time trials which had both men entering the building within seconds of the last shot.
The Nutters who believe Shelley and Lovelady didn't lie must accept that the Darnell footage is fake and the Truly/Baker time trials were fake. They must also accept that the encounter with Oswald in the second floor lunchroom 75 seconds after the assassination was also fake and that Oswald was lying to his interrogators when he mentioned it or that his interrogators were lying when they reported Oswald referring to it.
They must also believe the testimony of Victoria Adams is a pack of lies and that Sandra Styles and Dorothy Garner are also liars.
Nutters don't think things through because they think what they're told to think.

So, let's assume the Darnell footage is real, let's assume the Truly/Baker time trials were accurate, let's assume Adams, Styles, Garner, Truly, Baker, and those interrogators who reported Oswald's encounter with Baker aren't all liars.
Let's assume the only people lying are Shelley and Lovelady.
We have the following scenario -
The shots are fired.
Before the limo even reaches the Underpass Adams decides to get downstairs to find out what's going on. She turns to Styles and says, to paraphrase, "Let's go!". Baker sees the pigeons flying off the roof and decides he needs to get to the top of the TSBD building. He pulls up and races towards the TSBD steps, He enters the lobby, followed by Shelley and Lovelady who make their way past him as he tries to find out how to get up the building. Truly shows up to help him and as they are chatting in the lobby, Shelley and Lovelady make their way to the back of the first floor.
Adams and Styles hit the first floor approximately 40 seconds after the last shot, Adams calls out to Shelley and Lovelady about the President but they ignore her. Adams and Styles exit the back door and seconds later Baker and Truly arrive in the same area, where Baker reports seeing two white men just hanging out in that area seconds after the shooting.
Adams and Styles make their way round the building, Baker and Truly make their way up the building.
In this scenario the testimonies of everyone other than Shelley and Lovelady makes sense.
The time trials make sense.
The Darnell footage makes sense.
The Dillard picture makes sense.
The Stroud document makes sense.
This mass of interlocking evidence makes sense when we accept the obvious - Shelley and Truly lied about their movements after the assassination.

The time trials make sense.
The Darnell footage makes sense.
The Dillard picture makes sense.
The Stroud document makes sense.
This mass of interlocking evidence makes sense when we accept the obvious - Shelley and Truly lied about their movements after the assassination.

The frightening thing is that actually seems to make sense to you. I guess you think if you say it enough that somehow it magically becomes true. Sgt Harkness, Det. Sawyer and Officer Barnett testified to what took place around the building and it completely contradicts what you have been posting. Repeating these false statements over and over does not change the officers' timestamps.

[Dan O'meara]

The time trials make sense.
The Darnell footage makes sense.
The Dillard picture makes sense.
The Stroud document makes sense.
This mass of interlocking evidence makes sense when we accept the obvious - Shelley and Truly lied about their movements after the assassination.

The frightening thing is that actually seems to make sense to you. I guess you think if you say it enough that somehow it magically becomes true. Sgt Harkness, Det. Sawyer and Officer Barnett testified to what took place around the building and it completely contradicts what you have been posting. Repeating these false statements over and over does not change the officers' timestamps.

Yet another in a long list of senior moments.
You've got the threads mixed up Jack.
I think it's time for your nap. 

But here's a chance for you to avoid yet another simple question over and over again.
You posted that this

Sgt Harkness, Det. Sawyer and Officer Barnett testified to what took place around the building and it completely contradicts what you have been posting

Here's the question:

How does what Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett testified contradict what I've been posting?

Here's your big chance to show what an excellent "researcher" you are.
Are you going to answer this question or run away like you've done time after time?
What's it going to be Jack?

[Richard Smith]

You have taken a photo, created a story around it that only you think is accurate and stating all these people are lying. A photo only you can make out the participants. The interesting part is still how Lovelady and Shelley get in front of Truly and Baker in order to complete this fanciful tale. This whole story depends on Shelley and Lovelady telling the truth about talking to Calvery but also lying about everything else. Can you explain the reason for this odd logic? Maybe start with why are all the people who are lying are in a dead sprint to be where you want them to be.

Guessing and conjecture is all this whole post is about. Not a true fact anywhere. Until I read to you Shelley’s statement about Calvery you did not have an interest in her. Now you believe that part of his statement is undeniable, but the time is a lie. There is a point in time where constant accusations are just part of the endless tripe.

You have not proven anything.

This is some harsh truth.  Well said.

[Andrew Mason]

The following are excerpts from the WC testimonies of both men demonstrating, beyond any doubt, that they testify to the sequence of events I have laid out.

LOVELADY

Mr. Lovelady: ...I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, "Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps," so I went out there.
Mr. Ball: You ate your lunch on the steps?
Mr. Lovelady: Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball: Did you stay on the steps
Mr. Lovelady: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Were you there when the President's motorcade went by
Mr. Lovelady: Right.
Mr. Ball: Did you hear anything?
Mr. Lovelady: Yes, sir; sure did.
Mr. Ball: What did you hear?
Mr. Lovelady: I thought it was firecrackers or somebody celebrating the arrival of the President. It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot.

Mr. Ball: The top step you were standing there?
Mr. Lovelady: Right.
Mr. Ball: Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?
Mr. Lovelady: Yeah.
Mr. Ball: When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do?
Mr. Lovelady: Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street...

Mr. Ball: By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. Lovelady: As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.

SHELLEY

Mr. Ball: You were standing where?
Mr. Shelley: Just outside the glass doors there.
Mr. Ball: That would be on the top landing of the entrance?
Mr. Shelley: yes.
Mr. Ball: Did you see the motorcade pass?
Mr. Shelley: Yes.
Mr. Ball: What did you hear?
Mr. Shelley: Well, I heard something sounded like it was a firecracker and a slight pause and then two more a little bit closer together.

Mr. Ball: Then what happened?
Mr. Shelley: Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.

Mr. Ball: Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. Shelley: Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.

Do you agree with the fact that both men testify to the following sequence of events in their WC testimonies:
1] They were stood on the steps when the shooting happened.
2] They had not moved from the steps by the time Gloria came running up to them.
3] They left the steps heading across the Elm Street extension.
4] They turn and see Truly and Baker still stood outside the building.

It is not clear from the excerpts you have provided that they are saying that Gloria Calvery came up to them when they were on the steps.  That might be an inference one could draw, were it not for their earlier statements where they made it clear that they crossed Elm immediately after the shots and met Calvery.

You were also asked to what extent you relied on the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady when determining how long it took Adams to make it down to the first floor. You implied that you were using evidence other than the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady to make your determination.
What other evidence were you using?

Their earlier statements.  They described going across Elm trying to see the President's car but it sped away under the triple underpass.  They described then going to the rail yards and then going back along the west side of the building and entering the back door by the rear loading dock.

[Jack Nessan]

Yet another in a long list of senior moments.
You've got the threads mixed up Jack.
I think it's time for your nap. 

But here's a chance for you to avoid yet another simple question over and over again.
You posted that this

Sgt Harkness, Det. Sawyer and Officer Barnett testified to what took place around the building and it completely contradicts what you have been posting

Here's the question:

How does what Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett testified contradict what I've been posting?

Here's your big chance to show what an excellent "researcher" you are.
Are you going to answer this question or run away like you've done time after time?
What's it going to be Jack?

How does what Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett testified contradict what I've been posting?
 
This is a relief. I thought you had been stupidly posting that Shelley and Lovelady had actually sprinted to the elevator area immediately after the shots were fired. That in some bizarre fashion that Calvery had sprinted to the steps and told them JFK had been shot and this information was now the key to understanding this sudden revelation. That Shelley and Lovelady had been seen standing near the elevator by Adams and Styles before Truly and Baker ran up the stairs to the second-floor encounter with Oswald. 

Obviously, you are now indicating you have not been stating that at all. Instead because of the testimonies of Harkness, Swayer, and Barnett you now believe Adams and Styles had left the fourth floor later than they thought. Welcome back to reality Dan. We have missed you.

Originally, I thought you posted this as an obvious meaningless dodge to not address the obvious problems with this whole ridiculous storyline, but now I can see, like a cry for help, you are sincerely wanting to better your understanding of the assassination. Congratulations, glad I could help you.