No Shots Were Fired From Behind The Grassy Knoll Picket Fence

[Jim Hawthorn]

people hearing shot or shots or shells fall in one location would not rule out shot or shots from other locations , would you not agree ? . so norman and co hearing shots above them does not refute potential shot or shots from another location .some people heard no shots and some only heard two . that means that at the least that some failed to hear a third shot . if they failed to hear one shot it is not illogical then to assert that its not impossible for another additional shot to be fired and not heard .

Agreed.

...by the way harold norman is a witness on film that also placed Oswald on the first floor at a time when OFFICIALLY we are told Oswald was only on the 6th floor . and (from memory ) he testified that while passing through the lunchroom that SOMEONE WAS IN THERE but that he did not take note of whom it was . Oswald said he was in there and that HE SAW THESE TWO VERY MEN.

The only thing about that is that implies that Oswald either:

1. An innocent man freely moving around the building (so obviously not being set up as the assassin) - but then how to explain that his rifle was found on the 6th floor, the eye witnesses,...

2. Part of the conspiracy, having left the rifle up their for a co-conspiracist to use (he wouldn't be that stupid).

If he was the lone nut, he wouldn't have made a mad dash up to the 6th floor. For all he knew there might've been co-workers up there (which there were!).

In what sort of scenario do you see Oswald being in the lunchroom at the moment that Norman noticed someone there?

[Royell Storing]

brehms son was young that day but yes like you i dont think i have ever seen him speak on film . i have seen the newman children but not brehms son .but some people are private people naturally , and others may simply not want to get involved again in this case .but it would be interesting to know if he saw the piece of jfks head that his father saw land near the curb .

yes you are correct a motorcycle officer struggles with his bike and lays it down .as haygood ran to the concrete rail and stood on it i guess it was just a natural assumption that these were both haygood .

i had to remind myself but it was bowers who said he saw a motorcycle cop shoot up the incline .i would think that that must have been haygood who brehm saw having dropped his motorcycle at the curb .

    We have: (1) Holland standing atop the Triple Underpass, (2) Bowers inside the Railroad Tower, and (3) Cancellare as he traveled down Elm St.  These are 3 very respected witnesses ALL telling the same story of seeing a motorcycle racing UP-THE-KNOLL immediately following the Kill Shot. With regard to these 3 mistaking Haygood as to doing this, I do Not believe the Haygood DPD motorcycle even cleared the Elm St curb. Therefore, his motorcycle never reached/touched the very wide Elm St. sidewalk and certainly never came into contact with even a single blade of the Knoll grass. It is hard to believe that these 3 witnesses from 3 differing points inside Dealey Plaza mistook a motorcycle at the curb for a motorcycle streaking Up-The-Knoll.
    Remember that Brehm and Son were standing in front of the Babushka Woman as everything unfolded on Elm St. That kid's possible recollections with regard to her would be interesting to say the least. To a kid in 1963, somebody with a camera would attract their attention. 

[Fergus O'Brien]

    We have: (1) Holland standing atop the Triple Underpass, (2) Bowers inside the Railroad Tower, and (3) Cancellare as he traveled down Elm St.  These are 3 very respected witnesses ALL telling the same story of seeing a motorcycle racing UP-THE-KNOLL immediately following the Kill Shot. With regard to these 3 mistaking Haygood as to doing this, I do Not believe the Haygood DPD motorcycle even cleared the Elm St curb. Therefore, his motorcycle never reached/touched the very wide Elm St. sidewalk and certainly never came into contact with even a single blade of the Knoll grass. It is hard to believe that these 3 witnesses from 3 differing points inside Dealey Plaza mistook a motorcycle at the curb for a motorcycle streaking Up-The-Knoll.
    Remember that Brehm and Son were standing in front of the Babushka Woman as everything unfolded on Elm St. That kid's possible recollections with regard to her would be interesting to say the least. To a kid in 1963, somebody with a camera would attract their attention.

yes very interesting points Royell . i will have to review the films again . some times we take things for granted , look again and see what we initially failed to see . so i need to look again and refresh my memory . regarding Brehms son yes he may remember some things that may be of interest .

[Fergus O'Brien]

Agreed.

The only thing about that is that implies that Oswald either:

1. An innocent man freely moving around the building (so obviously not being set up as the assassin) - but then how to explain that his rifle was found on the 6th floor, the eye witnesses,...

2. Part of the conspiracy, having left the rifle up their for a co-conspiracist to use (he wouldn't be that stupid).

If he was the lone nut, he wouldn't have made a mad dash up to the 6th floor. For all he knew there might've been co-workers up there (which there were!).

In what sort of scenario do you see Oswald being in the lunchroom at the moment that Norman noticed someone there?

well Oswald may or may not have been setup to take the blame  , frankly in my view if he was setup that hoover , the commission and to a degree perhaps the DPD were involved in this , and lets not forget the agency in all this . the DPD were told early on to cease any talk of conspiracy international or otherwise Oswald was their man .all that said lets say Oswald was setup to take the blame , evidence left on the 6th floor to frame him . lets us say that is so . now i know if Oswald was seen by many say outside the door at 12.30 that would rule him out as being on the 6th floor .but really all he would  need to do is be somewhere in the building (anywhere ) where people would either not see him or merely see a person but take no notice of who . in such a case Oswald could be anywhere in the building RIGHT ? . we know well we can say that witnesses saw Oswald on the 1st and 2nd floors between about 11.45am and upwards of 12.15 to 12.20 .the last alleged sighting was the 2nd floor in and around 12.15 to 12.20 .sat alone in a booth . Oswald said he saw jarmin and norman also and they admitted they had passed through the lunchroom . norman said SOMEONE WAS THERE but took little notice of who. now even if i could prove all the above to be 100% accurate and true that would still leave Oswald time to get to the 6th floor before 12.30 . all be it , Williams then would pose another problem as he was still up there until a few minutes before Norman and jarmin arrived on the 5th floor . then we have additional problems after 12.30 getting Oswald back down stairs , such as dougherty on the 6th and then 5th floors never seeing a running or walking Oswald but having heard shots . then Dorthy garner failing to see Oswald or anyone go past her . and then truly on the 2nd and then 3rd floor landings and stairs where she should have passed Oswald but never did .

i prefer to examine  the evidence and see if it fits or not , works or not , passes the smell test or not if you will , i really dont care for theory or scenario etc . a little speculation has its place . i dont think it has been proven beyond doubt that Oswald took possession of and owned the rifle in evidence .despite protestations to the contrary by LN .

[Royell Storing]

yes very interesting points Royell . i will have to review the films again . some times we take things for granted , look again and see what we initially failed to see . so i need to look again and refresh my memory . regarding Brehms son yes he may remember some things that may be of interest .

    I believe I have the "Haygood not being Haygood" nailed. When Haygood gave his WC Testimony, the WC attorney was attempting to prove that the TSBD was sealed off immediately after Haygood made his 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle at the Elm St curb.  All that Documenting the Haygood 12:35 transmission did was PROVE that the alleged  motorcycle cop we see on the Darnell and Martin Films is NOT Haygood. There simply is Not enough time for Haygood to travel from atop the Triple Overpass/Walk across the train yard/Walk down the Elm St. Ext/ and then make his 12:35 transmission from his motorcycle at the Elm St curb. Not even close.This is where the Old Guard JFK Researchers were consistently derelict in their duties. They are extremely ignorant when it comes to Sworn Testimony whether it be WC, HSCA, ARRB, or Clay Shaw Trial. Like a kid being attracted to bright crayons and a coloring book, they are fixated on the JFK Assassination Photos and Film Footage. Every single piece of this assassination puzzle warrants intense scrutiny. 

[Fergus O'Brien]

i agree every part of this case needs to be examined with a fine tooth comb,  especially those areas that the commissions etc decided was best not to delve too deeply into .now that you mention it yes logically it would have been difficult for haygood to travel the distance you mention .i need to review the various films from that day .ive already looked at a few , so i will review them and see what thoughts i have on this .

[Royell Storing]

i agree every part of this case needs to be examined with a fine tooth comb,  especially those areas that the commissions etc decided was best not to delve too deeply into .now that you mention it yes logically it would have been difficult for haygood to travel the distance you mention .i need to review the various films from that day .ive already looked at a few , so i will review them and see what thoughts i have on this .

     Regarding films showing Officer Haygood: (1) the Darnell film shows him knifing his motorcycle between 2 Camera Cars as they head down Elm St, (2) Wiegman Film Shows him hugging the (N) Elm curb as he passes the Stemmons Sign, and (3) The Couch Film shows Haygood straightening up his motorcycle after dumping it at the curb on the (W) side of The Steps. Next comes the Photos: (1) Cabluck shows Haygood standing on a support beam attached to a section of the fencing that connects the Triple Underpass to the picket fence. Haygood is all alone in this photo. No eyewitnesses have caught up to him at this point, and (2) Cancellare Photo shows Haygood now standing atop a Triple Underpass Pillar and there are Now at least 10 eyewitnesses surrounding him. The Darnell film and the Martin Film show a DPD Motorcycle Cop WALKING across the entire train yard, and then WALKING down the Elm St. Ext toward the TSBD. The kill shot = 12:30 and Haygood made his Documented transmission from his motorcycle at 12:35. That gives him a Total of 5 Minutes to drive his motorcycle down Elm St, dump the bike, straighten it up, run Up and Across the Grassy Knoll, climb over the top of the Triple Underpass, travel to the train yard, Walk across the entire train yard, Walk down the Elm St Ext, and then get back down to his motorcycle at the bottom of Elm St. There's physically no way to do All of this in a mere 5 minutes. Personally, I believe it took Haygood probably close to 4 minutes to just get atop the Triple Underpass as photo'd by Cancellare. The obvious question here is just who is this alleged DPD Motorcycle Cop walking across the train yard and then walking down the Elm St. Ext toward the TSBD? If this is a legitimate DPD Motorcycle Cop, where is his motorcycle?