JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate

Two simultaneous, unrelated plots - the solution to the mystery?

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Richard Smith:

--- Quote from: Jim Hawthorn on January 27, 2024, 08:36:59 AM ---A possibility is that his troubled look is due to the fact that he realised that he was in fact being accused of killing the POTUS! - something that he hadn't planned to do at all. THAT is the gravity of his predicament hitting home. I suggest (I'm only throwing this out there by the way) that for Oswald, his descent from the 6th was supposed by among an atmosphere of confusion about shots ringing out (his own dummy shots). To his horror, JFK had actually been shot and from then on, his own plans were in total disarray and he fled.

I agree that it does look like he killed at Tippit but that doesn't prove that he intentionally tried to assassinate JFK. It has been theorised that Tippit was involved in the plot concerning Oswald (to escort him to a Dallas airfield). The theory is that Tippet realised that this whole thing might have been related to the assassination and he quizzed Oswald about it and things got heated, leading to him moving in on Lee and thus getting shot and silenced forever.

--- End quote ---

I'm losing track of your narrative.  How could there be a plot against Oswald within an hour of the assassination if your theory is that the real assassins were working independently from Oswald, and it was just a tillion to one coincidence that Oswald stuck his rifle out the window and yelled "bang."  How would they even know he existed much less organize a plot to have Tippit approach him?

Jim Hawthorn:

--- Quote from: Richard Smith on January 27, 2024, 07:54:27 PM ---I'm losing track of your narrative.  How could there be a plot against Oswald within an hour of the assassination...

--- End quote ---

There was no plot against Oswald at all. The theory is that he acted alone on the day as part of the non-assassination stunt to get him arrested (to strengthen his image as a pro-Castrist activist).
He was seen at that TSBD window and the description of him led to his capture. The DPD were convinced they had captured the assassin.


--- Quote from: Richard Smith on January 27, 2024, 07:54:27 PM ---... and it was just a trillion to one coincidence that Oswald stuck his rifle out the window and yelled "bang."  How would they even know he existed much less organize a plot to have Tippit approach him?

--- End quote ---

Why would it be a trillion to one coincidence? The situation of the motorcade coming into that funnel was too good to miss for any scheming minds during that politically volatile time. I don't find it at all far-fetched that two separate plots were under way.


--- Quote from: Richard Smith on January 27, 2024, 07:54:27 PM ---...Oswald stuck his rifle out the window and yelled "bang."

--- End quote ---
No, he actually fired a shot or two (blanks?).


--- Quote from: Richard Smith on January 27, 2024, 07:54:27 PM ---How would they even know he existed much less organize a plot to have Tippit approach him?

--- End quote ---
The conspiracy cell was totally unaware of Oswald until he was captured. Remember that the conspirators and the government framing of Oswald are two separate things.
As for the Tippit incident, we can't know for sure what exactly happened. Was Tippit simply questioning him because he fit the description that had been put out? Oswald was seen leaning on the passenger seat window frame of Tippit's car, seemingly chatting to him. Is that how an officer would conduct the questioning of a suspect? Who could possible be armed?
Which brings us to the theory that Tippit was part of the Oswald/CIA (rogue CIA?) stunt and his part to play was the picking up of Oswald, not far from his residence. Tippit might not even have any idea that a stunt was to be pulled that day (simply the chauffeur). There is even that theory (not mine) that he was to take Oswald to the airfield where a plane was revving, waiting to fly him to Cuba. The rifle would be found at the TSBD (as planned) and linked to Hidell/Oswald (as planned).
However, when Tippit heard that JFK had been murdered (by the conspirators), he realised the gravity of what was going on and that he might have been part of it! Too heavy. So when he began to get suspicious of Oswald - "Hold on a minute there. Does this have anything to do with what just happened!?" - and then he moved in on him, to arrest him - blam!

John Mytton:

--- Quote from: Jim Hawthorn on January 25, 2024, 04:26:41 PM ---I don't think so. The motorcade came past Oswald's place of work. What an opportunity for him to pull a stunt (because that's all it was with that lousy rifle left to be found).
At the same time, the conspirators saw that motorcade would slow right down to go around Dealy Plaza. Perfect for the hit!

I think that there actually was an extraordinary coincidence that day.

I have never accepted that a shooter, even Oswald, would try and shoot the President from a position where he could be so easily identified or discovered (on the 6th floor of a building full of people) and I don't believe he was a deranged nut who didn't care if he was caught. He had no connection with the actual conspirators.
Think it over. That amazing coincidence explains everything that happened, better than any other theory that I've come across.

--- End quote ---

Haven't we been told repeatedly by a lot of CT rifle "experts" and an expert Marine sniper or two, that firing into a moving Limousine was near impossible and hence the need for 27 snipers, and let's face it, the only reason Oswald tried and accomplished his task, was because it was going to be virtually the only opportunity he would have.

But the reality is, another team of assassinators with much more time and access to other locations would very likely choose a place where Kennedy was at the very least stationary and therefore negating the need for a triangulation of multiple snipers on a crowded street?



JohnM

Jim Hawthorn:

--- Quote from: John Mytton on January 28, 2024, 01:01:51 AM ---Haven't we been told repeatedly by a lot of CT rifle "experts" and an expert Marine sniper or two, that firing into a moving Limousine was near impossible and hence the need for 27 snipers, and let's face it, the only reason Oswald tried and accomplished his task, was because it was going to be virtually the only opportunity he would have.

--- End quote ---
That is pretty well lining up with what I'm saying. An amazing opportunity for Oswald and he jumped at the chance. Then comes the speculation around whether actually tried to kill JFK or if he shot into the ground or fired blanks. Of course the bullets were matched to his rifle but the CTers will say that those bullets were plants by the government framers (not by the small conspiracy cell).


--- Quote from: John Mytton on January 28, 2024, 01:01:51 AM ---But the reality is, another team of assassinators with much more time and access to other locations would very likely choose a place where Kennedy was at the very least stationary and therefore negating the need for a triangulation of multiple snipers on a crowded street?

--- End quote ---
Well a situation like the one you showed (a large public appearance) was far easier for the security teams to hermetically seal off. They couldn't sustain that level of security along the entire route to where he was to give a speech. There were thousands of windows along that route - danger at every point. It seems that they did tighten things up for the turn at Dealey Plaza but for anyone with bad intentions, it remained the ideal place for a hit (or a stunt). After all, a car that is moving towards you or away from you is relatively static through a gun sight.
So in the scenario I'm chewing over, Oswald's (real or dummy) shots might have startled the conspiracy assassin(s), creating a moment's hesitation on his/their part (WTF?) but the hit was accomplished as the limo levelled with the car park/grassy knoll.

Denis Morissette:
Two shooters in Dealey Plaza working independently was a theory of mine since the late 80s. Dealey Plaza is known as the perfect spot for an assassination attempt since the car had to dramatically slow down when it turned on Elm Street. The other strong point for the location is that it was natural that those in charge of the president’s security would have their guards down at that time.

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