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Author Topic: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview  (Read 39106 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #272 on: January 21, 2024, 12:57:43 AM »
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They were the first men that she knew who Adams saw after leaving the building. After Jim Leavelle's unanounced visit at her home in February 1964, in which he told a massive lie, the story morphed to Adams seeing both men at the bottom of the stairs, when the testimony of both men makes that a physical impossibility.

So Adams was not only guilty of misremembering, but she was also easily led? Interesting!

JohnM

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #272 on: January 21, 2024, 12:57:43 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #273 on: January 21, 2024, 09:31:00 AM »
Where did I say Oswald was "hanging around"??

1. After Oswald heard Truly YELLING up the elevator shaft Oswald immediately headed for the lunchroom.
2. Then after Oswald saw Truly run past, Oswald then was going to continue down the stairs.
3. But unfortunately for Oswald as he was opening the door, he unexpectedly saw a Police Officer.
4. Oswald then had two choices, hurriedly move into the relative safety of the Lunchroom or hurriedly move across the 2nd floor and through the office area and how does Oswald explain why he is in the Office because as Reid the clerical supervisor later politely explained "I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time?"
5. So being left with these two options, Oswald decided to move to the lunchroom.
6. After seeing a Police man going up the stairs, Oswald had no idea if any more Police were in that vicinity, so he made the decision to immediately flee out through the Office area.
7. At no point did Oswald just "hang around"!

JohnM

Wow. Did Oswald tell you this or did you just make it up?

The bottom line is that as soon as Oswald walked through the door to exit the area where the stairs are, he had two options; (1) carry on straight and go into the lunchroom or (2) go left and go down the hallway to the office space and leave the building through the front door. If he was on the run, he had no reason to spend even one second in the lunchroom!

But nice story... really!

4. Oswald then had two choices, hurriedly move into the relative safety of the Lunchroom or hurriedly move across the 2nd floor and through the office area and how does Oswald explain why he is in the Office because as Reid the clerical supervisor later politely explained "I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time?"

Do you ever think before you write? So, at first he's worried that he can't explain why he is in the office area but then he walks there anyway?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 09:46:10 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #274 on: January 21, 2024, 11:41:44 AM »
Wow. Did Oswald tell you this or did you just make it up?

The bottom line is that as soon as Oswald walked through the door to exit the area where the stairs are, he had two options; (1) carry on straight and go into the lunchroom or (2) go left and go down the hallway to the office space and leave the building through the front door. If he was on the run, he had no reason to spend even one second in the lunchroom!

But nice story... really!

4. Oswald then had two choices, hurriedly move into the relative safety of the Lunchroom or hurriedly move across the 2nd floor and through the office area and how does Oswald explain why he is in the Office because as Reid the clerical supervisor later politely explained "I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time?"

Do you ever think before you write? So, at first he's worried that he can't explain why he is in the office area but then he walks there anyway?

Quote
Do you ever think before you write?

Yes.

Do you ever read before you post?


6. After seeing a Police man going up the stairs, Oswald had no idea if any more Police were in that vicinity, so he made the decision to immediately flee out through the Office area.

JohnM

The immediate threat was Baker and Truly, so Oswald hurried into the neutral Lunchroom which would be easier to explain to Truly, because as Reid says, "I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time?"! It really isn't that difficult.

JohnM

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #274 on: January 21, 2024, 11:41:44 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #275 on: January 21, 2024, 01:21:22 PM »
Yes.

Do you ever read before you post?

The immediate threat was Baker and Truly, so Oswald hurried into the neutral Lunchroom which would be easier to explain to Truly, because as Reid says, "I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time?"! It really isn't that difficult.

JohnM

Do you ever read before you post?

Of course. How else would I have known that you were making up a bogus story?

Oswald didn't see Baker "as he was opening the door" as you falsely claimed. He was already at the other side of the door when Baker came up and saw him through a window in the door.

Mr. BAKER - As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there.
Mr. DULLES - Where was he coming from, do you know?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir. All I seen of him was a glimpse of him go away from me.


In other words, by the time Baker saw him, the door was closed and Oswald had his back to it as he walked into the lunchroom. That's why your little fairytale isn't credible. If he had been on the run, Oswald could have just turned right and go into the corridor and Baker would never have seen him.


Instead of making up stuff, why don't you try to be useful for once and reply to this question of mine;


This is what the key points of evidence actually say;

1. Adams and Styles said they went down the stairs at the back of the building. There is no reason to doubt that statement.
2. Shelley and Lovelady ran to the parking lot west of the building and when they got there, about 2 minutes after the shots, they saw police men checking cars. The photo you have posted shows the car park and the location where Shelley and Lovelady said they were.

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.

Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.

3. Styles was photographed standing next to Sawyer's car near the steps of the front door entrance. Sawyer arrived there at between 12:34 and 12:36.
4. Styles re-entered the building before it was sealed off. The building was sealed off when Sawyer arrived back from a short run to the 4th floor at around 12:37.

Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off.

Try working these known facts into a timeline that has Adams and Styles not leaving the 4th floor for several minutes after the shots.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 01:45:36 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #276 on: January 21, 2024, 03:42:55 PM »
The facts and common sense tell us beyond any doubt that Oswald was on the 6th floor at the moment of the assassination whether in a CT or LN scenario.  The LNer conclusion is based on the evidence Oswald left.  The shots were fired at 12:30 from the 6th floor.  Oswald left his prints on the SN boxes, bag, and rifle.  Fired bullet casings from his rifle are found by the window from which multiple witnesses saw the rifle/gunman or heard the shots from directly above their head.  Oswald has no credible alibi for this moment but is seen a couple minutes later in the 2nd floor lunchroom.  The evidence places him on the 6th floor at 12:30 and on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later.  The only apparent means for him to go from point A to B is down the stairs.  Because it was done without him being seen, that proves beyond any doubt that it could be done.  It can not only be implied from the known facts and evidence but MUST have been what happened.  All the pedantic nitpicking in the world in a desperate attempt to suggest doubt doesn't change the underlying facts and evidence.  If Oswald fired the shot at 12:30, and was seen on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later, that alone proves he was able to get down the stair unnoticed.  There is no further prove of that necessary. CTer can disput the evidence that Oswald was the shooter, but not that he made his way down the stairs unnoticed if he was the shooter in the LN scenario.

In the CTer scenario in which Oswald is being framed, there is absolutely no plausible scenario where the conspirators would allow Oswald to roam about the building.  It is absurd to suggest that after all the planning and risk to frame Oswald for the assassination of the president, that the conspirators would leave the most important thing to chance - whether Oswald would be in the presence of anyone who could give him an alibi or even be photographed on the street. How would they even know he was coming to work that day since he had made the visit to the Paine house where he usually spent the weekend?  What does that tell us?  That Oswald's movements in minutes leading up to the assassination would have been under the control of the conspirators either by choice or force.  If Oswald had been forced by someone to stay on the 6th floor out of the presence of his co-workers, he most certainly would have shouted that to the heavens.  Particularly after he was arrested for the crime.  There is no logical scenario where he is taken by force to the 6th floor and never mentions it to anyone.  That leaves Oswald perhaps working with the conspirators in some manner and voluntarily being on the 6th floor.  Either way there is no doubt in this conspiracy scenario that Oswald is not in the lunchroom or roaming about the common areas of building of his own free will at the moment of the assassination.  He is on the 6th floor.  That means he made it down the stairs unnoticed since he is encountered there a couple minutes later.  Once a thing happens, the odds against it happening no longer matter (even if they are accurately assessed which is not the case here with our pedantic Inspector Clouseau's analyzing the witness movements down to the second to reach a desired conclusion).  If the facts, circumstances, evidence and logic all confirm that Oswald was in place A at 12:30 and place B a couple of minutes later and we know the only way to done so was down the stairs, that proves he went down the stairs unnoticed.  A time machine is not required.  Nor is it necessary to rebut laughable timelines based on witness recollections that would need to be accurate to within a few seconds.  That is just going down another pointless rabbit hole.

The CTer mantra is to fixate on a single aspect of the case and ignore the implications of everything else including their own argument having any validity.  How would they square Oswald sitting in the lunchroom in plain sight of anyone who passed by or perhaps deciding to go watch the motorcade on the street like anyone else with a plan to frame him as the 6th floor assassin?  We will never know because they realize the absurdity of the consequences of their theories having any validity and refuse to extend the discussion beyond one single aspect.  The focus is solely on a second-by-second analysis of witness movements as though there is perfect witness recollection, and all events were timed with scientific perfection.

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #276 on: January 21, 2024, 03:42:55 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #277 on: January 21, 2024, 04:30:48 PM »
The facts and common sense tell us beyond any doubt that Oswald was on the 6th floor at the moment of the assassination whether in a CT or LN scenario.  The LNer conclusion is based on the evidence Oswald left.  The shots were fired at 12:30 from the 6th floor.  Oswald left his prints on the SN boxes, bag, and rifle.  Fired bullet casings from his rifle are found by the window from which multiple witnesses saw the rifle/gunman or heard the shots from directly above their head.  Oswald has no credible alibi for this moment but is seen a couple minutes later in the 2nd floor lunchroom.  The evidence places him on the 6th floor at 12:30 and on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later.  The only apparent means for him to go from point A to B is down the stairs.  Because it was done without him being seen, that proves beyond any doubt that it could be done.  It can not only be implied from the known facts and evidence but MUST have been what happened.  All the pedantic nitpicking in the world in a desperate attempt to suggest doubt doesn't change the underlying facts and evidence.  If Oswald fired the shot at 12:30, and was seen on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later, that alone proves he was able to get down the stair unnoticed.  There is no further prove of that necessary. CTer can disput the evidence that Oswald was the shooter, but not that he made his way down the stairs unnoticed if he was the shooter in the LN scenario.

In the CTer scenario in which Oswald is being framed, there is absolutely no plausible scenario where the conspirators would allow Oswald to roam about the building.  It is absurd to suggest that after all the planning and risk to frame Oswald for the assassination of the president, that the conspirators would leave the most important thing to chance - whether Oswald would be in the presence of anyone who could give him an alibi or even be photographed on the street. How would they even know he was coming to work that day since he had made the visit to the Paine house where he usually spent the weekend?  What does that tell us?  That Oswald's movements in minutes leading up to the assassination would have been under the control of the conspirators either by choice or force.  If Oswald had been forced by someone to stay on the 6th floor out of the presence of his co-workers, he most certainly would have shouted that to the heavens.  Particularly after he was arrested for the crime.  There is no logical scenario where he is taken by force to the 6th floor and never mentions it to anyone.  That leaves Oswald perhaps working with the conspirators in some manner and voluntarily being on the 6th floor.  Either way there is no doubt in this conspiracy scenario that Oswald is not in the lunchroom or roaming about the common areas of building of his own free will at the moment of the assassination.  He is on the 6th floor.  That means he made it down the stairs unnoticed since he is encountered there a couple minutes later.  Once a thing happens, the odds against it happening no longer matter (even if they are accurately assessed which is not the case here with our pedantic Inspector Clouseau's analyzing the witness movements down to the second to reach a desired conclusion).  If the facts, circumstances, evidence and logic all confirm that Oswald was in place A at 12:30 and place B a couple of minutes later and we know the only way to done so was down the stairs, that proves he went down the stairs unnoticed.  A time machine is not required.  Nor is it necessary to rebut laughable timelines based on witness recollections that would need to be accurate to within a few seconds.  That is just going down another pointless rabbit hole.

The CTer mantra is to fixate on a single aspect of the case and ignore the implications of everything else including their own argument having any validity.  How would they square Oswald sitting in the lunchroom in plain sight of anyone who passed by or perhaps deciding to go watch the motorcade on the street like anyone else with a plan to frame him as the 6th floor assassin?  We will never know because they realize the absurdity of the consequences of their theories having any validity and refuse to extend the discussion beyond one single aspect.  The focus is solely on a second-by-second analysis of witness movements as though there is perfect witness recollection, and all events were timed with scientific perfection.

So many words wasted. Just because you can't figure out an alternative scenario doesn't mean that your fairytale scenario must be true.

The facts and common sense tell us beyond any doubt that Oswald was on the 6th floor at the moment of the assassination whether in a CT or LN scenario.

No they don't. The only thing common sense tells us that you just can't provide actual evidence for 99% for your claims assumptions!

The LNer conclusion is based on the evidence Oswald left.

Too bad you can't actually prove that Oswald left any evidence at all. You just assume he did, just like you assume that he was on the 6th floor when the shots were fired.

The evidence places him on the 6th floor at 12:30 and on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later.

No it doesn't.... unless you consider the idiotic statement below to somehow be "evidence";

"The evidence that Oswald came down the stairs after the last shot is.... that it happened - "Richard Smith"    :D :D :D :D

It seems you still haven't understood just how stupid that remark, you made a while ago, really is, so let me try to help you.

Your circular logic works like this;

We know that Oswald was on the 6th floor, because he left evidence behind and we know that Oswald left evidence behind because he was on the 6th floor.   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Don't you ever get tired of your own BS?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 05:05:28 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #278 on: January 21, 2024, 06:01:49 PM »
Oswald offered no alibi , he said he ate alone . but again we have a person claiming things to be proven FACT when that simply is not the case .Brewer in testimony stated that he asked postal if she saw a man who he described to her go in ,according to brewer she said she did not see any such man sneak in . postal in her testimony not only said she saw the man sneak in but that she watched him walk along jeffferson and turn right and sneak in . that is quite a contradiction . who was right ? who was wrong ? , did one lie ? .in addition theater witnesses placed oswald in the theater quite a time before the brewer sighting . some 30 minutes prior .

i am not aware of any iron clad proof that the light color jacket found was oswalds . it was the wrong size , it was laundered when Marina did all Oswalds washing . it is difficult to place any stock in claims  by marina when we know there was atleast by inference a threat to deport her if she did not co operate . this is supported by Robert Oswald an LN witness .

did every single witness within the building hear shots ? .

Mr. BELIN - Did you hear any shots fired?
Mr. WEST - I didn't hear a one. Didn't hear a one.

so why then would you infer that Oswald would have had to naturally hear shots ? .

i believe from memory when you talk about Oswald and a "COMMOTION" that you talking about what is in the harry holmes notes , notes that very clearly do not relay certain events in the order they happened or not at the times they happened . in the notes holmes has Oswald saying he was still on the 6th floor at the time of the shots , something the BUG tried to use to his advantage . we know oswald never placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting .
[/quote

Ok, why does all that matter, LHO is still arrested in the theater with his gun, and he had no coat even though he left the boarding house with one, he had no ticket but of all things, he did have his pistol. 

Troy West is not even remotely the same. Oswald came down to see what the commotion was about. He obviously heard something to want to see what the commotion was about. West did not even know anything was going on at all. Maybe you are insinuating West shot JFK with LHO's rifle.

Don’t make up your own assassination and own statements. He came down to see what the commotion was about. The rest is all you.

It would have been hard for him to not hear the shots. His ear was next to the rifle. LHO’s fingerprints were all over the evidence. The only person with his fingerprints on every piece of evidence found on the sixth floor.

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #278 on: January 21, 2024, 06:01:49 PM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #279 on: January 21, 2024, 06:17:33 PM »
The facts and common sense tell us beyond any doubt that Oswald was on the 6th floor at the moment of the assassination whether in a CT or LN scenario.  The LNer conclusion is based on the evidence Oswald left.  The shots were fired at 12:30 from the 6th floor.  Oswald left his prints on the SN boxes, bag, and rifle.  Fired bullet casings from his rifle are found by the window from which multiple witnesses saw the rifle/gunman or heard the shots from directly above their head.  Oswald has no credible alibi for this moment but is seen a couple minutes later in the 2nd floor lunchroom.  The evidence places him on the 6th floor at 12:30 and on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later.  The only apparent means for him to go from point A to B is down the stairs.  Because it was done without him being seen, that proves beyond any doubt that it could be done.  It can not only be implied from the known facts and evidence but MUST have been what happened.  All the pedantic nitpicking in the world in a desperate attempt to suggest doubt doesn't change the underlying facts and evidence.  If Oswald fired the shot at 12:30, and was seen on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later, that alone proves he was able to get down the stair unnoticed.  There is no further prove of that necessary. CTer can disput the evidence that Oswald was the shooter, but not that he made his way down the stairs unnoticed if he was the shooter in the LN scenario.

In the CTer scenario in which Oswald is being framed, there is absolutely no plausible scenario where the conspirators would allow Oswald to roam about the building.  It is absurd to suggest that after all the planning and risk to frame Oswald for the assassination of the president, that the conspirators would leave the most important thing to chance - whether Oswald would be in the presence of anyone who could give him an alibi or even be photographed on the street. How would they even know he was coming to work that day since he had made the visit to the Paine house where he usually spent the weekend?  What does that tell us?  That Oswald's movements in minutes leading up to the assassination would have been under the control of the conspirators either by choice or force.  If Oswald had been forced by someone to stay on the 6th floor out of the presence of his co-workers, he most certainly would have shouted that to the heavens.  Particularly after he was arrested for the crime.  There is no logical scenario where he is taken by force to the 6th floor and never mentions it to anyone.  That leaves Oswald perhaps working with the conspirators in some manner and voluntarily being on the 6th floor.  Either way there is no doubt in this conspiracy scenario that Oswald is not in the lunchroom or roaming about the common areas of building of his own free will at the moment of the assassination.  He is on the 6th floor.  That means he made it down the stairs unnoticed since he is encountered there a couple minutes later.  Once a thing happens, the odds against it happening no longer matter (even if they are accurately assessed which is not the case here with our pedantic Inspector Clouseau's analyzing the witness movements down to the second to reach a desired conclusion).  If the facts, circumstances, evidence and logic all confirm that Oswald was in place A at 12:30 and place B a couple of minutes later and we know the only way to done so was down the stairs, that proves he went down the stairs unnoticed.  A time machine is not required.  Nor is it necessary to rebut laughable timelines based on witness recollections that would need to be accurate to within a few seconds.  That is just going down another pointless rabbit hole.

The CTer mantra is to fixate on a single aspect of the case and ignore the implications of everything else including their own argument having any validity.  How would they square Oswald sitting in the lunchroom in plain sight of anyone who passed by or perhaps deciding to go watch the motorcade on the street like anyone else with a plan to frame him as the 6th floor assassin?  We will never know because they realize the absurdity of the consequences of their theories having any validity and refuse to extend the discussion beyond one single aspect.  The focus is solely on a second-by-second analysis of witness movements as though there is perfect witness recollection, and all events were timed with scientific perfection.

Good summary Richard, conspiracy minded people have to be the most frustrated people in the world. Every day they get up and post ridiculous nonsense in the hopes they will make a difference in the understanding of the JFK assassination, unfortunately they always come up short. You can clearly see how that is working out for them. They can’t even cast doubt about LHO, let alone exonerate LHO or better yet come up with a viable alternative to what is known. The evidence points to LHO and his ever changing story provided no alibi. Good point and exactly right, the second floor lunchroom encounter with Baker is the only proof of his whereabouts after the assassination. His own words place him coming down the stairs. There is his alibi he was upstairs shooting his gun. Whoops.