The LHO Escape -- Panic and Shock

[Fergus O'Brien]

AND he told Marina that he would see her again on the weekend but that he wouldn't stay Friday since he stayed Thursday.

What's the need to leave the money Friday? He's going to see her Saturday and Sunday. Give her the money then. Discuss what she needs to buy. What's the need for curtain rods? He can get them over the weekend and take them back Monday.

There's a long list of circumstantial evidence, of acts, of behavior, of various accounts by people, that all point towards him. And only him. So all of this was faked? Manufactured? The evidence, the eyewitness accounts, his behavior? Absurd.

no money was left that morning , it was always there in an old wallet .

[Richard Smith]

well we are trying to ascertain as best as is humanly possible (and its not always possible i know ) what the true facts of this case are . so what one feels oswald PROBABLY did is not the same as showing he actually did that . a little speculation has its place of course .

no you did not say OSWALD LEFT ALL HIS MONEY FOR MARINA , and i dont believe i said you did , from memory i was talking in general about how lone nut advocates talk about this money that was found at the paines . but the fact i she neither left all or most of his money for marina that morning . the money found was found in an old wallet in which oswald placed much of any monies he had at any time inside it  .from a time dating back atleast even before he and marina ever lived at the paines . it not only contained cash but an unemployment cheque . so we can with all due respect dispense with any notion that oswald left asome or all of his money for marina THAT morning because he believed he would never return .

marina was in a position certainly to speak about oswalds habits at home , but not at work as she was never at work with him .but she did say in testimony that she recalled that he did not like to wear his ring at times , while at work now not at home .

Mr. RANKIN. Had your husband ever left his wedding ring at home that way before?
Mrs. OSWALD. At one time while he was still at Fort Worth, it was inconvenient for him to work with his wedding ring on and he would remove it, but at work--he would not leave it at home. His wedding ring was rather wide, and it bothered him.
I don't know now. He would take it off at work.

but the ring is proof of nothing in terms of the jfk assassination . one can speculate for sure , but that is all . and yes you raise a good point that people may not have realized he was married because he didnt wear his ring on his left hand . that is a valid point . but what is equally as valid is that he at times didnt like wearing his ring at work as it snagged on things , something i understand from personal experience work wise .

The amount of money left under the circumstances was unusually large for LHO.  According to his own wife, leaving his wedding ring at home was an extremely unusual occurrence.  His mere presence at the Paine home on Thursday was singular.  Do those things alone prove he was the assassin?  No, but taken in the context of all the evidence they lend themselves to the conclusion that Oswald made this unusual trip to the home that night to obtain the rifle which he stored there.  Knowing that the act of assassinating the president entailed his death or arrest, he left the money and wedding ring for his family.   He lied to Frazier.  Telling him that the trip was to obtain curtain rods.  No such curtain rods were taken.  Oswald didn't need any such curtain rods.  No curtain rods were found in the TSBD or Oswald's boarding house in a package as described by Frazier.   Oswald's rifle was missing from the Paine garage.  It was found on the 6th floor along with a long bag with Oswald's prints.  Oswald told Frazier that he was not carrying his lunch that morning, but then told the police that he carried his lunch in a sack.   Why lie about his lunch to Frazier or the police?  It makes for a compelling case against Oswald.

[Fergus O'Brien]

"The only intended outcome was to die" john mytton

it was ? so then why did he shout out for all to hear i am not resisting arrest , i am not resisting arrest . surely if he had this death wish you speak of he would have ensured he died ? . he had ample time  while mcdonald was walking down the aisle away from him to pull out a gun and at the least shoot mcdonald . which i should think would ensure he died there and then at the hands of the police . but that does not happen .instead he stays seated at first . then mcdonald orders him to stand and he does , he orders oswald walk toward him , oswald again complies and does so with both hands up to atleast shoulder / head height . and then oswald only reacts when mcdonald reaches into oswalds waist band .

[Fergus O'Brien]

The amount of money left under the circumstances was unusually large for LHO.  According to his own wife, leaving his wedding ring at home was an extremely unusual occurrence.  His mere presence at the Paine home on Thursday was singular.  Do those things alone prove he was the assassin?  No, but taken in the context of all the evidence they lend themselves to the conclusion that Oswald made this unusual trip to the home that night to obtain the rifle which he stored there.  Knowing that the act of assassinating the president entailed his death or arrest, he left the money and wedding ring for his family.   He lied to Frazier.  Telling him that the trip was to obtain curtain rods.  No such curtain rods were taken.  Oswald didn't need any such curtain rods.  No curtain rods were found in the TSBD or Oswald's boarding house in a package as described by Frazier.   Oswald's rifle was missing from the Paine garage.  It was found on the 6th floor along with a long bag with Oswald's prints.  Oswald told Frazier that he was not carrying his lunch that morning, but then told the police that he carried his lunch in a sack.   Why lie about his lunch to Frazier or the police?  It makes for a compelling case against Oswald.

it seems the point i have made several times now is being ignored . i will say it one last time . the money was found in an old wallet . this was money and even atleast one cheque , monies that oswald placed in that wallet at differing points in time over weeks if not months . and dating from a time prior to them ever living at the paines house . yes oswald may have told marina to take some of that money if she needed , he was after all trying to reconcile with her , and so he may have thought that would make marina happy .

his presence at the paines on thursday was singular ? you mean a singular event ? that he had never gone to the paines on any other night other than a friday ? . if so you will find that to be incorrect .

we know even from one of your very own star witnesses (marina her self ) in testimony that oswald did indeed come home to try and  make things right with her . he tried to talk to her and try to reconcile but she would have none of it . so to say he only went home to get a rifle is not accurate .

oswald as has been said here already was usually quiet and kept to himself , even frazier said it was difficult to get him to talk . but he would talk about his kids . so in that sense i have zero reason to believe that oswald being the way he was would volunteer to tell frazier he was going home on thursday because his marriage was in the crapper .and that he was going there because he was desperate to try and reconcile with her . so i would not be surprised in such a case if oswald or whom ever made up a reason for the trip . you ask why lie ? well ive just given you a valid reason based on our knowledge of oswald as a person .

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Depository worker Oswald suddenly has a Friday afternoon off. Wouldn't he check with Frasier to see when he was going to Irving? Or was Oswald-the-Family-Man skipping a weekend with his family?

I figure Oswald-the-Cheapskate (who bought himself magazine subscriptions, weapons and a trip to Mexico City while Marina's teeth rotted and the kids lived on handouts) would be so worried that Marina would splurge the "fortune" he left behind that he would want to get back to Irving pronto.

Marina/WC testimony on Oswald's weekend plans:

Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss the weekend that was coming up?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he probably would not come on Friday, and he didn't come he was in jail.
Mr. RANKIN. When he said he would not be home that Friday evening [November 21st 22nd], did you ask him why?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. What did he say?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said that since he was home on Thursday, that it wouldn't make any sense to come again on Friday, that he would come for the weekend.

So he leaves $170 and tells Marina to buy what she wants. Even though he was going to see her Saturday and Sunday. They lived apart due to lack of money; they were always poor, desperate (those CIA checks kept getting lost in the mail I guess). But suddenly money is no issue? "Go ahead Marina, spend it all."

[Martin Weidmann]

The amount of money left under the circumstances was unusually large for LHO.  According to his own wife, leaving his wedding ring at home was an extremely unusual occurrence.  His mere presence at the Paine home on Thursday was singular.  Do those things alone prove he was the assassin?  No, but taken in the context of all the evidence they lend themselves to the conclusion that Oswald made this unusual trip to the home that night to obtain the rifle which he stored there.  Knowing that the act of assassinating the president entailed his death or arrest, he left the money and wedding ring for his family.   He lied to Frazier.  Telling him that the trip was to obtain curtain rods.  No such curtain rods were taken.  Oswald didn't need any such curtain rods.  No curtain rods were found in the TSBD or Oswald's boarding house in a package as described by Frazier.   Oswald's rifle was missing from the Paine garage.  It was found on the 6th floor along with a long bag with Oswald's prints.  Oswald told Frazier that he was not carrying his lunch that morning, but then told the police that he carried his lunch in a sack.   Why lie about his lunch to Frazier or the police?  It makes for a compelling case against Oswald.

His mere presence at the Paine home on Thursday was singular. 

So what? The weekend before he didn't go at all, which was also singular. In total he only made a couple of trips to Irving. To argue that his trip on Thursday has some special meaning, because it was a deviation from his usual routine, is utter speculation.

Do those things alone prove he was the assassin?  No, but taken in the context of all the evidence they lend themselves to the conclusion that Oswald made this unusual trip to the home that night to obtain the rifle which he stored there. 

The only problem with this is that you can't even prove that Oswald owned a rifle in November 1963 and that it was that rifle that was "stored" in Ruth Paine's garage. All you actually have is Marina saying that she looked in the blanket, about a week after leaving New Orleans (which would make it late September 63), and saw a rifle. Everything else is supposition and conjecture. You can't even prove that it was the MC rifle that was stored in the garage.

So, how any of those other things, which are questionable by themselves, can justify the conclusion that Oswald went to Irving to collect a rifle that you can't even show was actually there, is beyond me. You've got your imagination running wild.

Oswald's rifle was missing from the Paine garage.

There you go again. Another combination of wild claims for which you can not provide a shred of actual evidence. It's all assumption and speculation.

Oswald told Frazier that he was not carrying his lunch that morning, but then told the police that he carried his lunch in a sack.

More LN cherry picking. If you are going to rely on Frazier, then also rely on him when he described how Oswald held the package (between the cup of his hand and below his armpit) and also accept that, on Friday evening, Frazier was shown the bag found at the TSBD and clearly stated that it wasn't the bag he had seen Oswald carry.

It makes for a compelling case against Oswald.

No it doesn't. It only demonstrates clearly what the pre-determined outcome of the investigation had to be.

[Martin Weidmann]

Depository worker Oswald suddenly has a Friday afternoon off. Wouldn't he check with Frasier to see when he was going to Irving? Or was Oswald-the-Family-Man skipping a weekend with his family?

I figure Oswald-the-Cheapskate (who bought himself magazine subscriptions, weapons and a trip to Mexico City while Marina's teeth rotted and the kids lived on handouts) would be so worried that Marina would splurge the "fortune" he left behind that he would want to get back to Irving pronto.

If Oswald was really the cheapskate you make him out to be, why would he have left money for Marina and the kids in the first place? If he was killed and the money was found on his person, it would go to Marina anyway, so there was no reason for him to leave it in Irving. In fact, if he only thought about himself it would have made more sense to keep the money himself just in case he could get away.

Your "logic" (if it can be called that) simply doesn't make any sense.