The LHO Escape -- Panic and Shock

[Fergus O'brien]

I said that he left most of his money with Marina.  Not all.  And, of course, Oswald followed the Russian tradition of wearing his wedding ring on his right hand.  Assuming that you are even correct that most of his co-workers didn't know he was married, that is probably because he hardly spoke to anyone and wore his ring on the opposite hand.  Not because he didn't wear his wedding ring on a regular basis.  Instead his own wife confirmed it was the only time he had done so.  She was in the best position to know.

well we are trying to ascertain as best as is humanly possible (and its not always possible i know ) what the true facts of this case are . so what one feels oswald PROBABLY did is not the same as showing he actually did that . a little speculation has its place of course .

no you did not say OSWALD LEFT ALL HIS MONEY FOR MARINA , and i dont believe i said you did , from memory i was talking in general about how lone nut advocates talk about this money that was found at the paines . but the fact i she neither left all or most of his money for marina that morning . the money found was found in an old wallet in which oswald placed much of any monies he had at any time inside it  .from a time dating back atleast even before he and marina ever lived at the paines . it not only contained cash but an unemployment cheque . so we can with all due respect dispense with any notion that oswald left asome or all of his money for marina THAT morning because he believed he would never return .

marina was in a position certainly to speak about oswalds habits at home , but not at work as she was never at work with him .but she did say in testimony that she recalled that he did not like to wear his ring at times , while at work now not at home .

Mr. RANKIN. Had your husband ever left his wedding ring at home that way before?
Mrs. OSWALD. At one time while he was still at Fort Worth, it was inconvenient for him to work with his wedding ring on and he would remove it, but at work--he would not leave it at home. His wedding ring was rather wide, and it bothered him.
I don't know now. He would take it off at work.

but the ring is proof of nothing in terms of the jfk assassination . one can speculate for sure , but that is all . and yes you raise a good point that people may not have realized he was married because he didnt wear his ring on his left hand . that is a valid point . but what is equally as valid is that he at times didnt like wearing his ring at work as it snagged on things , something i understand from personal experience work wise .

[Fergus O'brien]

From "Marina and Lee". On the morning of the assassination after dressing "Lee kissed the children, who were sleeping. But he did not kiss Marina, as he always did before he left in the morning. He got as far as the bedroom door, then came back, and said "I've left some money on the bureau. Take it and buy everything you and Junie and Rachel need. Bye-bye." Then Lee went out the door.

"Good God", thought Marina, "What has happened to my husband that he has all of a sudden got so kind?"

When she awakened later and "Looked into the bureau, she found the extraordinary sum of $170. It must have been nearly everything Lee had."

He didn't leave the money in his wallet as he normally kept it. He took it out, placed it on the bureau and specifically told her to spend it all on her and the girls. All of it. No worries about tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow......

FROM MARINA OSWALD (not from an author whos connections with cia are questionable )

Mr. RANKIN. Did you usually keep a wallet with money in it at the Paines?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, in my room at Ruth Paine's there was a black wallet in a wardrobe. Whenever Lee would come he would put money in there, but I never counted it.
Mr. RANKIN. On the evening of November 21st, do you know how much was in the wallet?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. One detail that I remember was that he had asked me whether I had bought some shoes for myself, and 1 said no, that I hadn't had any time. He asked me whether June needed anything and told me to buy everything that I needed for myself and for June and for the children. This was rather unusual for him, that he would mention that first.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he take the money from the wallet from time to time?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, he generally kept the amount that he needed and put the rest in the wallet.
I know that the money that was found there, that you think this was not Lee's money. But I know for sure that this was money that he had earned. He had some money left after his trip to Mexico. Then we received an unemployment compensation check for $33. And then Lee paid only $7 or $8 for his room. And I know how he eats, very little.

[Fergus O'brien]

Yes, nothing to see there.  Oswald takes a singular trip to the Paine home on a Thursday - the night before the assassination - where he just happened to store his rifle.  He leaves his wedding ring for the first time with his wife the next day.  He also leaves a large amount of money.  He carries a long package which he tells Frazier contains curtain rods.  No such curtain rods are ever found at any location he visited that day.  He later denies carrying anything other than his lunch sack.  He flees from the crime scene moments after the assassination - also his place of employment - in the middle of the day to obtain a gun.  This flight from the crime is somehow twisted to mean that Oswald is innocent because if he were guilty, he would have sat down and allowed himself to be arrested.

we have already established that HE DID NOT LEAVE THE MONEY THERE . it was always there in that wallet dating back to even before marina ever lived at the paines .

Mr. RANKIN. Did you usually keep a wallet with money in it at the Paines?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, in my room at Ruth Paine's there was a black wallet in a wardrobe. Whenever Lee would come he would put money in there, but I never counted it.
Mr. RANKIN. On the evening of November 21st, do you know how much was in the wallet?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. One detail that I remember was that he had asked me whether I had bought some shoes for myself, and 1 said no, that I hadn't had any time. He asked me whether June needed anything and told me to buy everything that I needed for myself and for June and for the children. This was rather unusual for him, that he would mention that first.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he take the money from the wallet from time to time?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, he generally kept the amount that he needed and put the rest in the wallet.
I know that the money that was found there, that you think this was not Lee's money. But I know for sure that this was money that he had earned. He had some money left after his trip to Mexico. Then we received an unemployment compensation check for $33. And then Lee paid only $7 or $8 for his room. And I know how he eats, very little.

the ring proves nothing relating to the assassination of jfk . marina gave him no encouragement in terms of reconciliation , she refused to talk to him . why he took his ring off can only be speculated upon in the sense that we cant ask mr oswald . was it frustration ? was it he thought his marriage was over ? was it just spur of the moment ? who can say .marina can of course give her opinion on this but only mr oswald knew for sure , and he cant tell us .

the rifle even when broken down was some 35 or 36 inches long , frazier described the manner in which oswald carried the sack and even the sort of paper it was made from . like a regular paper sack one gets in a store . he described the manner in which he said oswald carried that sack , and unless one has very long arms oswald did not carry a broken down 36 inch rifle .

no mention is given to why oswald might tell frazier he was going to the paines to pick up curtain rods , as opposed to telling wes his marriage was in the crapper . oswald even by your admission kept to himself , he was quiet and volunteered little information to people , even wes said really the only thing he could lee to talk about was his kids . so i see no reason that oswald would have told wes his marriage might be over and that he was going to try and talk to marina and try to save his marriage . and he didnt volunteer that information did he ? .

i dont know if oswald was innocent or guilty , i dont know if he played no part , a small part or was guilty as charged .but i do know i want truth and facts to guide me not speculation , agenda or bias or anything like that .

[Fergus O'brien]

AND he told Marina that he would see her again on the weekend but that he wouldn't stay Friday since he stayed Thursday.

What's the need to leave the money Friday? He's going to see her Saturday and Sunday. Give her the money then. Discuss what she needs to buy. What's the need for curtain rods? He can get them over the weekend and take them back Monday.

There's a long list of circumstantial evidence, of acts, of behavior, of various accounts by people, that all point towards him. And only him. So all of this was faked? Manufactured? The evidence, the eyewitness accounts, his behavior? Absurd.

no money was left that morning , it was always there in an old wallet .

[Richard Smith]

well we are trying to ascertain as best as is humanly possible (and its not always possible i know ) what the true facts of this case are . so what one feels oswald PROBABLY did is not the same as showing he actually did that . a little speculation has its place of course .

no you did not say OSWALD LEFT ALL HIS MONEY FOR MARINA , and i dont believe i said you did , from memory i was talking in general about how lone nut advocates talk about this money that was found at the paines . but the fact i she neither left all or most of his money for marina that morning . the money found was found in an old wallet in which oswald placed much of any monies he had at any time inside it  .from a time dating back atleast even before he and marina ever lived at the paines . it not only contained cash but an unemployment cheque . so we can with all due respect dispense with any notion that oswald left asome or all of his money for marina THAT morning because he believed he would never return .

marina was in a position certainly to speak about oswalds habits at home , but not at work as she was never at work with him .but she did say in testimony that she recalled that he did not like to wear his ring at times , while at work now not at home .

Mr. RANKIN. Had your husband ever left his wedding ring at home that way before?
Mrs. OSWALD. At one time while he was still at Fort Worth, it was inconvenient for him to work with his wedding ring on and he would remove it, but at work--he would not leave it at home. His wedding ring was rather wide, and it bothered him.
I don't know now. He would take it off at work.

but the ring is proof of nothing in terms of the jfk assassination . one can speculate for sure , but that is all . and yes you raise a good point that people may not have realized he was married because he didnt wear his ring on his left hand . that is a valid point . but what is equally as valid is that he at times didnt like wearing his ring at work as it snagged on things , something i understand from personal experience work wise .

The amount of money left under the circumstances was unusually large for LHO.  According to his own wife, leaving his wedding ring at home was an extremely unusual occurrence.  His mere presence at the Paine home on Thursday was singular.  Do those things alone prove he was the assassin?  No, but taken in the context of all the evidence they lend themselves to the conclusion that Oswald made this unusual trip to the home that night to obtain the rifle which he stored there.  Knowing that the act of assassinating the president entailed his death or arrest, he left the money and wedding ring for his family.   He lied to Frazier.  Telling him that the trip was to obtain curtain rods.  No such curtain rods were taken.  Oswald didn't need any such curtain rods.  No curtain rods were found in the TSBD or Oswald's boarding house in a package as described by Frazier.   Oswald's rifle was missing from the Paine garage.  It was found on the 6th floor along with a long bag with Oswald's prints.  Oswald told Frazier that he was not carrying his lunch that morning, but then told the police that he carried his lunch in a sack.   Why lie about his lunch to Frazier or the police?  It makes for a compelling case against Oswald.

[Fergus O'brien]

"The only intended outcome was to die" john mytton

it was ? so then why did he shout out for all to hear i am not resisting arrest , i am not resisting arrest . surely if he had this death wish you speak of he would have ensured he died ? . he had ample time  while mcdonald was walking down the aisle away from him to pull out a gun and at the least shoot mcdonald . which i should think would ensure he died there and then at the hands of the police . but that does not happen .instead he stays seated at first . then mcdonald orders him to stand and he does , he orders oswald walk toward him , oswald again complies and does so with both hands up to atleast shoulder / head height . and then oswald only reacts when mcdonald reaches into oswalds waist band .

[Fergus O'brien]

The amount of money left under the circumstances was unusually large for LHO.  According to his own wife, leaving his wedding ring at home was an extremely unusual occurrence.  His mere presence at the Paine home on Thursday was singular.  Do those things alone prove he was the assassin?  No, but taken in the context of all the evidence they lend themselves to the conclusion that Oswald made this unusual trip to the home that night to obtain the rifle which he stored there.  Knowing that the act of assassinating the president entailed his death or arrest, he left the money and wedding ring for his family.   He lied to Frazier.  Telling him that the trip was to obtain curtain rods.  No such curtain rods were taken.  Oswald didn't need any such curtain rods.  No curtain rods were found in the TSBD or Oswald's boarding house in a package as described by Frazier.   Oswald's rifle was missing from the Paine garage.  It was found on the 6th floor along with a long bag with Oswald's prints.  Oswald told Frazier that he was not carrying his lunch that morning, but then told the police that he carried his lunch in a sack.   Why lie about his lunch to Frazier or the police?  It makes for a compelling case against Oswald.

it seems the point i have made several times now is being ignored . i will say it one last time . the money was found in an old wallet . this was money and even atleast one cheque , monies that oswald placed in that wallet at differing points in time over weeks if not months . and dating from a time prior to them ever living at the paines house . yes oswald may have told marina to take some of that money if she needed , he was after all trying to reconcile with her , and so he may have thought that would make marina happy .

his presence at the paines on thursday was singular ? you mean a singular event ? that he had never gone to the paines on any other night other than a friday ? . if so you will find that to be incorrect .

we know even from one of your very own star witnesses (marina her self ) in testimony that oswald did indeed come home to try and  make things right with her . he tried to talk to her and try to reconcile but she would have none of it . so to say he only went home to get a rifle is not accurate .

oswald as has been said here already was usually quiet and kept to himself , even frazier said it was difficult to get him to talk . but he would talk about his kids . so in that sense i have zero reason to believe that oswald being the way he was would volunteer to tell frazier he was going home on thursday because his marriage was in the crapper .and that he was going there because he was desperate to try and reconcile with her . so i would not be surprised in such a case if oswald or whom ever made up a reason for the trip . you ask why lie ? well ive just given you a valid reason based on our knowledge of oswald as a person .

[Jerry Organ]

Depository worker Oswald suddenly has a Friday afternoon off. Wouldn't he check with Frasier to see when he was going to Irving? Or was Oswald-the-Family-Man skipping a weekend with his family?

I figure Oswald-the-Cheapskate (who bought himself magazine subscriptions, weapons and a trip to Mexico City while Marina's teeth rotted and the kids lived on handouts) would be so worried that Marina would splurge the "fortune" he left behind that he would want to get back to Irving pronto.