When Was JBC Hit?

[Tom Graves]

So random turns in different directions can only mean that a gunshot occurred.  That means there were several on Main Street. They just weren’t caotured on film and didn’t hit anyone.

JFK, Jackie, Connally, Nellie, and Kellerman all quicky turned their heads during the half-second between Z-140 and Z-150. The first three turned their heads to the left, the last two turned their heads to the right.

Specifically, JFK and Jackie quicky turned their heads to their left at Z-143, about two seconds before JFK started waving to Mary Woodward and Co. on his right.

Didn't Woodward say in her 11/23 DMN article that after the "backfire-like" missing-everything first shot, JFK and Jackie looked around as if to say, "What the heck was that?"

Mary Woodward:

"The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn’t believe the noise was really coming from a gun. Then after a moment’s pause [during which JFK turned his head back to his right and started waving to Woodward and Co.) there was another shot [at approximately Z-222] and I saw the President start slumping in the car."

[Andrew Mason]

Right. The up and down motion of his arm lasted all of 9 frames, about a half second. How would that help him turn around? Do you ever think before you write?

He had to lift his right arm above the back of the jump seat in order to turn around to look at JFK. And, yes, I think before I write. In particular, I think before writing comments such as yours, which is why I never write them.

[Tom Graves]

He had to lift his right arm above the back of the jump seat in order to turn around to look at JFK. And, yes, I think before I write. In particular, I think before writing comments such as yours, which is why I never write them.

You must think quite hard to come up with all of the lame rationalizations and scenarios that you do.

Poor thing, you must be exhausted!

[Andrew Mason]

Do you deny that JFK, Jackie, Connally, Nellie, and Kellerman all quicky turned their heads during the half-second between Z-140 and Z-150, and that the first three turned their heads to the left, whereas the last two turned their heads to the right?

Yes I do.

At z139 I see JBC looking to his right at about 3 o'clock and JFK looking to his left at about 11 o'clock. Jackie is looking to her left at about 10 o'clock. I can't see where Nellie or Kellerman are looking although it looks like Nellie's shoulders are turned to about a 2:30 o'clock position.

By z144 JFK is turned a bit farther left facing a 10 o'clock position.  Jackie is facing the same position she was in at z139, looking to her left at 10 o'clock. JBC has turned and appears to be facing forward.  I still can't see Kellerman. Nellie seems to have moved slightly to a 2 o'clock shoulder position and may be facing her husband.

At z150 there is no change to JFK - still looking at about a about a 10:00 o'clock direction. Jackie is still facing left, but a bit more than in z139 - maybe facing in a 9:30 o'clock direction. I still can't see Kellerman.  Nellie has turned a bit more forward and her shoulders are facing a 1 o'clock direction.  If the light part above her neck (blocked parially by the rearview mirror) is her face, then she is facing the same direction as well.

So, yes, I do not agree "that JFK, Jackie, Connally, Nellie, and Kellerman all quicky turned their heads during the half-second between Z-140 and Z-150, and that the first three turned their heads to the left, whereas the last two turned their heads to the right".

Do you deny that JFK and Jackie quicky turned their heads to their left at Z-143, two seconds before JFK waved to Mary Woodward and Co. on his right?

I have said what I see. I don't see any quick turn by JFK or Jackie there.  At least you are now acknowledging that the turn to the right at about z172 by both JFK and JBC and a bit later by Jackie was in response to Mary Woodward's shouts.   Now you just have to accept that she was right that they turned and waved before the first "horrible ear-shattering noise".

Didn't Woodward say in her 11/23 DMN article that after the "backfire-like" missing-everything first shot, JFK and Jackie looked around as if to say, "What the heck was that?"

Mary Woodward:

"The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn’t believe the noise was really coming from a gun. Then after a moment’s pause there was another shot and I saw the President start slumping in the car."

She did not refer to the first shot as a "missing-everything first shot".  She said "After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right".  "Things are a little hazy from this point, but I don't believe anyone was hit with the first bullet.  The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn't believe the noise was really coming from a gun.  Then after a moment's pause there was another shot and I saw the President start slumping in the car. This was followed rapidly by another shot (she does not describe the effect but describes Jackie standing up and falling on top of her husband's body.)

She elaborated more on the rapidity of the last two shots in 1988. In a 1988 interview by Nigel Turner for the film "The Men Who Killed Kennedy", Mary Woodward stated: “The second two shots were immediate --- it was almost as if one were an echo of the other -- they came so quickly. The sound of one did not cease until the second shot.” … “and then the third shot came very, very quickly, on top of the second one”


So I conclude that her "a little hazy" sense that JFK was not hit by the first shot has to be looked at in connection with other things she observed: 1. that the first shot occurred as JFK turned forward after acknowledging their cheers. JFK is not turned forward prior to z193. 2.  that she may not have been looking at JFK closely after the first shot.  She may have looked up at the overpass. In her December 7, 1963 FBI statement: "She stated that her first reaction was that the shots had been fired from above her head and from possibly behind her.  Her next reaction was that the shots might have come from the overpass which was to her right... She stated that she had seen about five or six persons attending on top of the overpass and possibly this is why her first reaction was to look at the top of this overpass." 3. that the last two shots were rapid - much less than five seconds apart. That observation excludes the possibility that JFK was not hit until the second shot since he is reacting at least 5 seconds before the last shot.

[Andrew Mason]

You must think quite hard to come up with all of the lame rationalizations and scenarios that you do.

Poor thing, you must be exhausted!

Just following what is seen in the zfilm.  He lifts his right arm and turns around to the right.  Why would he not lift his arm before turning?

[Tom Graves]

ME: Do you deny that JFK, Jackie, Connally, Nellie, and Kellerman all quicky turned their heads during the half-second between Z-140 and Z-150, and that the first three turned their heads to the left, whereas the last two turned their heads to the right?

YOU: Yes I do.

In that case, you're either blind or a prevaricator.

Which is it?

[Tom Graves]

[...]

It’s telling that you left out Woodward’s reporting that the limo came “nearly to a halt” after the “backfire-like” missing-everything first shot.

As you and I both know, the limo didn’t slow down nearly to a halt until after JFK (and JBC) had been wounded (by CE-399) around Z-222.

The fact that she said that is an indication that she confused what occurred after Z-222 with what happened before and after Oswald’s “backfire-like” missing-everything shot at “Z-124.”

That, plus the fact that JFK didn’t start waving to Woodward and Co. until Z-175, is confirmation that my analysis is correct: Woodward jumbled the events surrounding the first and second shots.

But, hey, at least she was correct in saying there were three shots and that the first shot missed everything!