When Was JBC Hit?

[John Corbett]

Just to take one example from your litany of lame rationalizations, you say "Jackie moved [turned, to be more precise] her head [to her left starting at Z-145] to acknowledge the crowd."

Rhetorical question: Is that why she had a concerned look on her face as she was looking directly at Robert Croft in his well-known Z-161 photograph?

Seems like a strange way to "acknowledge the crowd."

(Was Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman turned so far to his right in the Croft photo to "acknowledge the crowd," or to "keep an eye on them xxxxxxx"?)


By the way, you never gave a rational answer to my question:

Why did Secret Service Agent George Hickey lean so far over the side of the car, and when did he begin that motion?


Answers:

Hickey began his conscious response to Oswald's first missing-everything "Z-124" shot by Z-146.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z146.jpg


He maxed out in Z-157

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z157.jpg

Very compelling evidence of an early shot, however I still maintain there is no definitive proof of how early. We have clues but it comes down to how we weigh those clues as to when that first shot was fired. The clearest reaction is JBC's head turn at Z164. We just don't know how quickly he reacted. A shot at theoretical Z124 would have been heard by JBC at theoretical Z126. That's 38 frames or just over two seconds. It's possible but certainly not definitive. If you are going to postulate a shot before Zapruder resumed filming, I don't know how you can pinpoint it to a theoretical frame.

Hickey did not testify before the WC but he did file a report.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

The report is a bit vague. He describes the first sound as a disturbance but clearly states the next two were gunshots. I can't find it any reference to this in his report but somebody had stated years ago on McAdams website that Hickey had looked over the side of the car because he thought a tire might have blown out. I don't know where they got that from so I don't know how reliable that claim is. What is interesting to me is that he described the last two shots as sounding different from the first. The question is why did it sound different. You have suggested it was because the first shot was fired with the muzzle inside the building. I have suggested the roar of the accelerating motorcycles could have muffled the sound of the first shot. There is no definitive proof for either explanation.

[Tom Graves]

The clearest reaction [to the first, missing-everything, shot] is JBC's head turn [back to his right] at Z-164. A shot at theoretical Z-124 would have been heard by him at theoretical Z-126. That's 38 frames, or just over two seconds.

Between Z-133 and Z-143, JFK is looking at the spectators to his right (and either waving to them or brushing his hair back), as is JBC, who is just looking at them.

In Z-143, JFK starts turning his head quickly towards Jackie and then turns it quickly back to his right, towards the spectators.

At Z-150, JBC quickly turns his head to his left about 45 degrees and is "captured" looking almost straight ahead in the Z-161 Robert Croft photo.

In Z-164, JBC starts turning his head quickly back to his right about 120 degrees to try to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder, but he can't "see" (i.e., recognize) him because by Z-180 JFK has turned his head far to his right and has raised his hand and forearm to wave to someone, thereby partially obscuring JBC's (peripheral) view of his face.

Point being: JBC consciously reacted to Oswald's "Z-124" shot about 1.31 seconds after hearing it, not "just over two seconds" after hearing it.

[Andrew Mason]

Just to take one example from your litany of lame rationalizations, you say "Jackie moved [turned, to be more precise] her head [to her left starting at Z-145] to acknowledge the crowd."

Rhetorical question: Is that why she had a concerned look on her face as she was looking directly at Robert Croft in his well-known Z-161 photograph?

Seems like a strange way to "acknowledge the crowd."

Over 80 witnesses provided evidence that is inconsistent with a shot at that point. Even Croft said his photo was not only before the first shot, but he had time to wind his camera and get ready to take another before the first shot. So your insistence that they were all, independently, wrong but mutually consistent with each other because you can read her face is difficult to understand.  In any event, face reading is not a science and is nothing more than speculation with zero evidentiary or persuasive value.

By the way, you never gave a rational answer to my question:

Why did Secret Service Agent George Hickey lean so far over the side of the car, and when did he begin that motion?

Since there hadn’t been a shot, if he was leaning out it must have been to get a better look at something unrelared to a rifle shot, possibly people who were standing in the roadway.

[Tom Graves]

Over eighty witnesses provided evidence that is inconsistent with a shot at that point. Even Croft said his photo was not only before the first shot, but he had time to wind his camera and get ready to take another before the first shot.

"Evidence," my you-know-what.

The first shot at "Z-124" sounded different from the other two, probably because the muzzle of Oswald's short-rifle was inside the building for the steeply-downward-angled shot when he fired it.

A lot of people thought it was just another motorcycle backfire, or a firecracker, or even a tire blowout. That, and the fact that Dealy Plaza is an echo chamber, threw off a lot of people. Unfortunately, eighty of them provided their mistaken opinions.

So, your insistence that they were all independently, wrong but mutually consistent with each other because you can read Jackie's face in the Croft photo is difficult to understand.

Is English your second language?

In any event, face reading is not a science and is nothing more than speculation with zero evidentiary or persuasive value.

You said the reason Jackie turned her head far to her left between Z-145 and Z-161 is because "she was acknowledging the crowd."

If that was the case, why wasn't she smiling and/or waving in the Robert Croft photo?

Why did she look so concerned?

IF Secret Service Agent George Hickey was leaning over the side of the car [between Z-150 and Z-170], it must have been to get a better look at something unrelated to a rifle shot, possibly people who were standing in the roadway.

I guess you haven't seen how far down he was leaning in Z-160.

Maybe he was barfing, or picking up some litter, right?

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg

[Andrew Mason]

"Evidence," my you-know-what.

The first shot at "Z-124" sounded different from the other two, probably because the muzzle of Oswald's short-rifle was inside the building for the steeply-downward-angled shot when he fired it.

A lot of people thought it was just another motorcycle backfire, or a firecracker, or even a tire blowout. That, and the fact that Dealy Plaza is an echo chamber, threw off a lot of people. Unfortunately, eighty of them provided their mistaken opinions.

One has to understand how to assess probabilities of independent events. The probability that 25 would independently imagine seeing the same thing, which did not occur, while none would report what actually did occur, is effectively zero.

Is English your second language?

Yes. Have you considered remedial reading classes? They may help.

[Tom Graves]

One has to understand how to assess probabilities of independent events. The probability that 25 would independently imagine seeing the same thing, which did not occur, while none would report what actually did occur, is effectively zero.

Was Hickey barfing, or picking up some litter?

Trying to retrieve a nickel he'd dropped?

Was Bennett leaning over to his right while looking straight ahead because he had a boil on his ass?

Was Roy Kellerman turned far to his right in the Croft photo because he was keepin' an eye on them Black "terrorists"?

Did Rosemary Willis turn her head towards the TSBD because she was hoping to catch a glimpse of LBJ and Lady Bird?

Was Connally's head turned so far to his right at Z-180 because the pretty gal JFK was waving to had caught his eye, too?

Did Jackie turn her head far to her left and have a concerned look on her face in the Z-161 Robert Croft photo because she was worried that he was using the wrong speed film?

[John Corbett]

Between Z-133 and Z-143, JFK is looking at the spectators to his right (and either waving to them or brushing his hair back), as is JBC, who is just looking at them.

In Z-143, JFK starts turning his head quickly towards Jackie and then turns it quickly back to his right, towards the spectators.

At Z-150, JBC quickly turns his head to his left about 45 degrees and is "captured" looking almost straight ahead in the Z-161 Robert Croft photo.

In Z-164, JBC starts turning his head quickly back to his right about 120 degrees to try to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder, but he can't "see" (i.e., recognize) him because by Z-180 JFK has turned his head far to his right and has raised his hand and forearm to wave to someone, thereby partially obscuring JBC's (peripheral) view of his face.

None of the things you mentioned, other than the JBC Z164 turn, are definitive signs of a reaction to a gunshot. There are other plausible reasons for those movements. The only reason the Z164 is more compelling is because JBC described how he reacted to the sound of the first shot. We see him do exactly what he said he did. If I am correct that the first shot was fired at Z147-148, JBC would have heard it in the Z149-150 window and his reaction would have been roughly 3/4 of a second. The Z155 jiggle/shake of Zapruder's camera is very similar to his reactions at Z227 and Z318, both closely following when known shots were taken. To  me, that is the preonderance of evidence as to when the first shot was fired, even if not proof positive.

Point being: JBC consciously reacted to Oswald's "Z-124" shot about 1.31 seconds after hearing it, not "just over two seconds" after hearing it.