When Was JBC Hit?

[Dan O'meara]

Like nearly all threads, this quickly veered off-topic but surely there must be a consensus opinion regarding the OP

[John Corbett]

When was JBC shot through the chest?
I ask "when" in terms of the Z-film - when in the Z-film is JBC hit?
That is to say, when does JBC first show signs that he has been hit [as we cannot see the actual bullet entering him].
I am not asking, when does JBC think he was hit or when any other witness believes he was hit or what any "theory" has to say about it.
When, during the Z-film, does JBC show the clear signs of an extreme reaction that can be safely interpreted as being shot through the chest?

In the clip below, which is s bit jerkier than I would like, we see JBC looking off to his right as JFK waves and smiles to the crowds. He is partially obscured by a part of the limo.
JBC is looking off to his right as he disappears behind the Stemmons sign.
He is still looking off to his right as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign.



Below is z223.
It shows JBC after he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign.
He is still looking off to his right as he was before he passed behind the Stemmons sign and, in my opinion, he looks calm and composed:




Almost immediately after this frame JBC appears to have an extreme reaction.
The clip below is from z222 to z250.
In my opinion it shows JBC having an extreme reaction, most likely to being shot:



Is it an extreme reaction to being shot or could it be something else?
If you agree it is a reaction to being shot then when does this reaction begin?

David Von Pein's website does the best examination of the single bullet theory I have seen.

This particular one shows the simultaneous upward arm movements of JFK and JBC from Z225 to Z226. This isn't the moment they were shot. It was the moment they reacted. The bullet would have struck a few frames earlier. Pinpointing it is difficult because of the relatively low number of frames per second in the Z-film and that JBC was out of view until Z222. The jiggle analysis indicates the shot was likely fired in the Z219-220 time frame which would mean the bullet struck in the Z221-222 time frame. That was followed by the bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 which also was not simultaneous with the bullet strike.

[Zeon Mason]

I’m still with the Z224 being a bullet that hit JC. But I’m not at all sure about the wrist wound occurring at that point because of the odd position JC would have to be in holding his hat upside down with his right hand over the top of his left leg such that the bullet could go thru the top of  his right hand at the wrist, exit the base of the palm and into his left inner thigh without having gone thru the hat.

CE399 had no damage deformation to the nose of the bullet and it was only slightly deformed. It had a very dubious chain of custody and much confusion about where it was found and what the bullet looked like (pointed vs ball nosed)

The conventional LN explanation for no  damage to the nose of the bullet is  because it was spinning end over end as it entered  the top of JCs  right hand and it struck  the wrist bone backwards. Thus only lead and no copper traces left in the wrist.

Whether the bullet went thru nose first or end first, there should have been some small trace of copper metal left in the hand along with the small traces  of lead.

Since only apparently trace amounts of lead ( flakes) were left in the wrist then an alternative explanation. must be that the wrist was struck by a lead fragment rather than a whole intact FMJ bullet.

The 2 alternative (LN) possibilities:

A. Andrew Masons Z270 shot where the bullet that skews thru JCs chest and rib cage at the more severe angle fragmented the bullet and some  lead was sheared off and went thru JCs right hand as it was up against his chest holding the hat.

B. The SBT modified such that a Z313  fragment  went thru JCs right hand while he leaned back into Mrs.C.

If neither of the above nor the conventional  SBT are satisfactory then IDK   

[Dan O'meara]

David Von Pein's website does the best examination of the single bullet theory I have seen.

This particular one shows the simultaneous upward arm movements of JFK and JBC from Z225 to Z226. This isn't the moment they were shot. It was the moment they reacted. The bullet would have struck a few frames earlier. Pinpointing it is difficult because of the relatively low number of frames per second in the Z-film and that JBC was out of view until Z222. The jiggle analysis indicates the shot was likely fired in the Z219-220 time frame which would mean the bullet struck in the Z221-222 time frame. That was followed by the bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224 which also was not simultaneous with the bullet strike.

The shot actually passed through both men at z222/223.
I wonder what someone like Benjamin Cole has to say about all this?

[John Corbett]

The shot actually passed through both men at z222/223.
I wonder what someone like Benjamin Cole has to say about all this?

To me, jiggle analysis of the Z-film is the best way to determine when the single bullet struck. All of the calculations below are based on approximations because that is sufficient for this exercise.

We can start with the headshot because that is the most obvious to pinpoint. The distance from the sniper's nest to JFK's head was 88 yards(264 feet). At an average velocity of 2000 fps, it would have taken 0.132 seconds for the bullet to reach JFK's head. Each frame of the Z-film covers 0.0564 seconds. That works out to approximately 2.34 frames of the Zapruder film meaning the bullet would have been fired in the Z310-311 window. There was an obvious camera jiggle and Z318, meaning there was a lag time of 7-8 frames from the time the bullet was fired to the time Zapruder reacted to the muzzle blast.

Since the distance from the rifle to Zapruder's ears was a constant for all three shots, we should expect a similar lag time for all 3 shots. There is an obvious jiggle at Z227. Applying the same 7-8 frame lag time between the shot and the reaction, that would indicate Oswald fired the single bullet in the Z219-220 time frame. The distance from the rifle to JFK at that time was roughly 190 feet. Using the same estimated average velocity of 2000 fps, it would have taken .095 seconds for the bullet to reach JFK's back. That is 1.68 frames so a bullet fired at Z219-220 would likely have struck in he Z221-222 time frame. That would have been 2-3 frames before JBC's jacket bulged out and 4-5 frames before both JFK and JBC flipped their arms upwards. This all seems very reassonable to me.