When Was JBC Hit?

[Jerry Organ]

JBC's head turn to the right is from z164-171 and follows JFK turning his head in the same direction from z159-168. Neither turns would appear to be unusual. 

Doesn't Nelly and Jackie also turn to their right about there?

The explanation for those turns was provided by Mary Woodward who said that JFK and Jackie were turned to the left so she waved and shouted to them as they approached.  JFK appears to be looking at her as he goes past the lamp post just to the left of Woodward.   JBC continues looking and turned to the right as he disappears behind the Stemmons sign.  Mary Woodward said that this turn and the subsequent smile and hand wave occurred before the first "horrible, ear-shattering noise".  Many others said the same thing.  She also said that she and her friends were the last people that JFK ever acknowledged.  So that has to be the turn that she is describing.

But nobody on Woodward's side of the street appears to be waving at the Kennedys during that time (a few clap hands). Woodward can't see Jackie's face Z133ff; by time Jackie turns her head right, JFK and his right arm are in the line-of-sight. So the waving and the facial contract between Woodward and the Kennedys must have occurred before Z133. I don't see why the Woodward group wouldn't be eager to get the Kennedys' attention as soon as the car straighten out, rather than seconds before it was to pass them. They seem in awe as the limousine goes by them in the film and satisfied with the moment; seems no further antics were needed.

The turn that JBC described was a turn in response to the first shot, which he recognized as a rifle shot and immediately feared an assassination was taking place.  He said he turned to the right to try to see the President.  That turn begins about z230.  That is the only time he turns around to make any effort to look in the President's direction.

Connally, when struck in the Z220s, initially registers nothing registers nothing visually, then some vague figures that go by before the head shot. In the Z230s, he begins to spin sideways in response to the shot, sort of doubled over and started to fall backward towards Nellie. But according to your thoroughly-discredited Ash-Heap Pet Theory, Connally has only taken a bullet to the thigh (in the Z190s, which the Governor is not aware of), and the reactions he shows (sudden jacket pluck, unnaturally-fast wrist flip, subsequent collapse) are merely the Governor "showing concern" for the President.

[Dan O'meara]

You have collected a mountain of evidence that JFK is reacting to the first shot when he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. 

When they emerge from behind the Stemmons sign, both men are reacting to the first shot, just as the evidence says they did 

The first bullet passed through JFK on a right to left path without deflecting a material amount and did not appear to strike the car so that is when JBC was first hit by a bullet (ie. when the first shot struck).

JBC was hit in the back on the second shot, according to the evidence.  There were only three shots.

When they emerge from behind the Stemmons sign, both men are reacting to the first shot, just as the evidence says they did

How can you say JBC is reacting to the first shot when he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?
Are you seriously saying that this frame shows JBC "reacting"?

[Andrew Mason]

Doesn't Nelly and Jackie also turn to their right about there?

Jackie and Nellie begin their turns to the front-right at about z174.

But nobody on Woodward's side of the street appears to be waving at the Kennedys during that time (a few clap hands). Woodward can't see Jackie's face Z133ff; by time Jackie turns her head right, JFK and his right arm are in the line-of-sight. So the waving and the facial contract between Woodward and the Kennedys must have occurred before Z133. I don't see why the Woodward group wouldn't be eager to get the Kennedys' attention as soon as the car straighten out, rather than seconds before it was to pass them. They seem in awe as the limousine goes by them in the film and satisfied with the moment; seems no further antics were needed.

You can tell that they are NOT waving?  We can only see their backs. She could have been waving at any time.  She said she shouted when JFK was approaching looking to the left.  He is looking to the left until z159.  He never looks left after that and her impression was that JFK did not acknowledge anyone after acknowledging them.

... and the reactions he shows (sudden jacket pluck, unnaturally-fast wrist flip, subsequent collapse) are merely the Governor "showing concern" for the President.

There is an increase in the amount of white shirt seen between z222 and z223. There is a decrease in the amount of white shirt seen from z223 and z224. How are you able to tell that the first (z222-223) is not caused by jacket motion due to arm movement?  How are you able to tell that the second (z223-224) is any different:  ie. a "pluck" caused by a bullet and not simply a movement of the jacket caused by arm motion (or a combination of jacket movement and, possibly, changing shadow)?

[Andrew Mason]

When they emerge from behind the Stemmons sign, both men are reacting to the first shot, just as the evidence says they did

How can you say JBC is reacting to the first shot when he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?
Are you seriously saying that this frame shows JBC "reacting"?

I was referring to when both men emerge from behind the Stemmons sign.  When both men emerge (z224 and after) I see reactions in both men.  JFK is obviously reacting and JBC begins moving his arms from z224-228 as he prepares to turn around.  JBC did not say that he reacted to being hit. He said he reacted by turning around to see JFK out of fear that an assassination was unfolding. That arm movement has to be part of that turn.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Connally himself, after studying high-quality prints of the Z film under high magnification for LIFE magazine, said he was certain, beyond any doubt, that he was not hit before Z228.

When he reemerges into view in Z222, he does have a concerned look on his face and appears somewhat tense, but that is only natural because he has just heard at least one loud bang that sounded like a gunshot. So, yes, naturally, he would feel worried and would become somewhat tense. But that is a far cry from reacting to multiple, extremely painful wounds, including having a bullet tear through your upper torso and smashing several ribs in the process.

In Z238, we see Connally's right shoulder slammed downward and an obvious pained look begins to form on his face. The bullet probably hit him between Z234 and Z237, just as he said.

[John Mytton]

Connally himself, after studying high-quality prints of the Z film under high magnification for LIFE magazine, said he was certain, beyond any doubt, that he was not hit before Z228.

When he reemerges into view in Z222, he does have a concerned look on his face and appears somewhat tense, but that is only natural because he has just heard at least one loud bang that sounded like a gunshot. So, yes, naturally, he would feel worried and would become somewhat tense. But that is a far cry from reacting to multiple, extremely painful wounds, including having a bullet tear through your upper torso and smashing several ribs in the process.

In Z238, we see Connally's right shoulder slammed downward and an obvious pained look begins to form on his face. The bullet probably hit him between Z234 and Z237, just as he said.

Connally only studied still frames and did the best he could and guessed!

Today we have the technology to closely examine consecutive frames.

As Connally emerges from behind the sign his jacket billows as CE399 passes through and his right shoulder thrusts forward as his left shoulder violently raises.



At the same split second both Connally and Kennedy react simultaneously



Connally's hat flip and look of immense pain happen way before Z230.



The above images came from DVP's excellent blogspot and you can spend days going through it all and you still won't have seen everything!
https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/

Btw Griffith, why do you believers in Zapruder Film alteration still use exact Zapruder frames to prove your theories, you have absolutely no right to use the Zapruder film! Hypocrite!

JohnM

[Michael T. Griffith]

Connally only studied still frames and did the best he could and guessed!

Today we have the technology to closely examine consecutive frames.

As Connally emerges from behind the sign his jacket billows as CE399 passes through and his right shoulder thrusts forward as his left shoulder violently raises.

At the same split second both Connally and Kennedy react simultaneously

Connally's hat flip and look of immense pain happen way before Z230.

Btw Griffith, why do you believers in Zapruder Film alteration still use exact Zapruder frames to prove your theories, you have absolutely no right to use the Zapruder film! Hypocrite!

JohnM

Wow, it's amazing that Connally himself, the man who actually experienced the wounding, was absolutely certain that he was not hit before Z228. He looked at every frame from Z222 through Z245 under high magnification and using high-qualify prints of each frame, and he saw no indication that he was hit before Z228. But you say he only "guessed" and could not recognize his own reactions!

His right shoulder does not start to get slammed forward and downward until Z238, and his face does not start to exhibit a pained expression until Z238. Connally said the bullet's impact felt like someone punched him hard in the back, so it's ludicrous to suppose that the impact occurred in Z224. You would not have a 14-frame delay between impact and shoulder collapse. You might have a 3-4-frame delay, but no more. This lines up with Connally's conclusion that the bullet's impact occurred at Z234.

And how do you have an SBT hit at Z224 when JFK begins to react to his non-fatal wounding at around Z200, and when Jackie clearly starts to react to JFK's reaction in Z202, as even the HSCA photographic experts recognized and acknowledged? We now know that the initial Secret Service analysis of the Z film concluded that JFK was hit at Z199.

The HSCA experts also recognized that Willis slide 5 is strong evidence that JFK was hit at least 17 frames before he disappears behind the freeway sign because Willis slide 5 corresponds with Z202. Willis specified that he snapped the picture in a startle reaction to hearing a shot fired. Allowing time for Willis's brain and nervous system to receive, process, and react to the sound of the shot, this means Willis heard the shot at around Z186-190, as the HSCA experts explained. I cover this in some detail in my book.

I use the Zapruder film as evidence because the forgers were not able to remove all the problematic elements from the film. There was only so much editing they could do. They could not get rid of every unwanted sequence. That's why the film was suppressed for so many years. The plotters recognized that even the altered version markedly contradicted the lone-gunman scenario.

[John Mytton]

I use the Zapruder film as evidence because the forgers were not able to remove all the problematic elements from the film. There was only so much editing they could do. They could not get rid of every unwanted sequence. That's why the film was suppressed for so many years. The plotters recognized that even the altered version markedly contradicted the lone-gunman scenario.

Well isn't that convenient, the "plotters" only altered frames/sequences which don't affect your theories? What a load of self serving nonsense.

Anyway Griffith, let me get this straight, the "plotters" didn't alter the sequences where Oswald's bullets actually struck his victims but isn't one of your theories that the "plotters" altered ineffectual frames/timing around Brehm's son, is that right and the most important question that needs answering is WHY?

JohnM