JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
When Was JBC Hit?
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Jerry Organ on July 09, 2024, 03:17:45 AM ---
Your sight-lines are never going to work because your convergence point is wrong and, more importantly, the HSCA limo drawing is deeply flawed. Why you insist on using it, I don't know.
You have Kennedy's back merging into the top of the seat-back. The Towner film and Croft Photo show Kennedy's back about three inches forward of the seat-back's front seam.
--- End quote ---
The H&E drawing does not show the slope of the seat back. We can use the sightlines projected onto this composite of the H&E drawing superimposed over your model with your trajectory from the SN through JFK (6.86 degrees to car direction) and mine at z193 (18 degrees to car direction):
I can accept your positions. What I can't accept is the 6.86 degree angle that you need in order for the SBT to work. The angle from the SN to car direction at z222 was 9.5 degrees:
Your suggestion that JBC's back would have blocked the path to the left thigh with JBC turned as he was at z193 is the issue. As this photo demonstrates, the thigh could well have been on the straight line path:
--- Quote ---Connally is not over almost to the door in Z193. So if you're wrong and the SBT is wrong, then there must be another scenario as to what happened.
--- End quote ---
Connally can be just where you put him, as can JFK.
The SBT is wrong if "not being in conflict with large bodies of consistent evidence" is the test for correctness. The scenario as to what happened is explained simply by the evidence of the first shot hitting JFK at around z193 (at which point the angle was around 18 degrees) and the last two shots being closer together, the first of which struck JBC in the right armpit and wrist, leaving fragments deflecting off the radius striking the windshield, windshield frame and the road/curb near Tague.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Jerry Organ on July 10, 2024, 04:35:14 AM ---
"6.86 degrees to car direction" Not me. I use a lateral of 8-degrees, the same angle I figured out on the HSCA map years ago.
--- End quote ---
Ok. My measurement was incorrect. The angle that I get for your trajectory line, correctly measured, is 7.5 degrees to the car direction:
You still have a bit of a problem putting JFK in the same position at z222 that he was in Altgens #5, however. He is not leaning against the side of the car in z222-225:
You have his forehead almost above the inside edge of the back seat compartment. That may have been his position in Altgens #5 but it does not appear to be his position at z222.
--- Quote ---What 9.5 degree angle? I'll give you credit for one thing. You have a knack for taking any map and limo plat, and getting whatever angle you want.
--- End quote ---
The difference appears to be where we place the rifle. If your placement is correct, the angle is 8.3 degrees:
--- Quote ---The SBT and your Theory are something for the WC critic to, at least, consider.
--- End quote ---
My rejection of the SBT is based on all the evidence but primarily the evidence of the 1...........2......3 shot pattern, the evidence that JFK reacted to the first shot and the evidence that JBC was struck in the back by the second shot, not the first shot. The trajectory issues, condition of CE399, the concussion effect of the second shot and fragment striking Tague on the second shot, the hair flip on the second shot, Nellie's evidence, the absence of evidence of a missed shot etc. provide further support for the 3 shot, 3 hit shot sequence.
Royell Storing:
What you ALL Fail to grasp is that when JFK leaned back into that corner/nook that is created where the backseat backrest meets the passenger side of the car, JFK's head is physically OUTSIDE of the Limo. This is obvious when JFK boards the Limo at Love Field and he then sits/leans back into that nook. In this seated position, there is No Way a bullet exiting JFK's throat above the adam's apple would strike the in-board seated Gov Connally. Also, with his head physically outside of the Limo, a bullet Entering his throat would NOT have to be fired through the windshield.
Royell Storing:
Try to stay on topic. The multitude of Facts disproving the SBT have nothing to do with Trump.
Zeon Mason:
Since the MC rifle found on the 6th floor TSBD had a scope mount that needed shims to change the mount angle enough that the scope reticle could be adjusted in elevation properly, then that suggests 2 possibilities:
A. The shooter was unaware the scope was out of alignment and he fired the 1st shot using the scope only to then realize how far off it was and then he switched to using the iron sights.
B. The shooter WAS aware the scope was out of alignment before he began shooting therefore most probable he fired 1st shot using the iron sights as well as 2nd and 3rd shots.
If A. Then the idea of a Z193 shot fired thru foliage of a tree is not that implausible if the shooter was using the more restricted sight picture of the scope when he had started tracking the target a few seconds prior to firing the shot at Z193.
If B however, it’s implausible the shooter would be unaware of how the much foliage of the tree would interfere with his sight picture given the much larger area background in his LOS while he used iron sights.
If A however, Its less probable the shooter was Oswald as surely he would be aware of this misalignment problem, thus would use irons sights for shot the 1st shot, thus he would be aware of the tree foliage in relation to his iron sight picture and therefore he would have NOT likely fired a 1st shot at Z193 thru ANY % of tree foliage.
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