When Was JBC Hit?

[Steve Barber]

 It seems to me that Andrew Mason and others who don't believe that JBC and JFK were struck with the same bullet--and/or other reasons because of JBC's reactions--are either unaware, have forgotten about, or just don't know that Governor Connally did STRANGE, unreal things after being shot, that appear in both the Nix and Zapruder films.  Although difficult to see in the Orville Nix film after the fatal shot was fired, according to the Zappruder film, plus Mrs. JBC's testimony JBC falls or is pulled to his left by his wife, and stayed low for only a second before he raised back up and turned to look to the rear into the back seat as we lose him behind the foliage from the pyracantha bush bwtween Zapruder and the limousine.   After two seconds pass, he comes back into view once again, just before the limousine disappears beneath the underpass.

 I first wrote about this in 1999 titled which John McAdams published on his Website.  https://www.jfk-assassination.net/looking.htm    Years later, a researcher named Gerda Dunckel released a video on YouTube titled " Zapruder Stabilized JFK Or Connally?", in which she stabillized the Zapruder film beginning with frame 221 and continuing until the final frame of the film, with her focus on John Connally by placing "Crosshairs" over his image in the film, and asking the question about who is sitting erect-JFK or the governor-as the limousine approaches the underpass.  View the video here:

  Did the governor ever once mention rising back up in his seat?   No.  Not until the car reached Parkland Hospital, when he said he "Heaved himself up" to get out of the way of the people trying to reach JFK.  Obviously, the governor went into some type of shock upon being struck by the bullet he received.  Why else would he never mention sitting completely erect in his seat as the limousine entered the triple underpass, or again, as early as while Mrs. Kennedy is rising from the back seat to exit the limousine?  People suffering with being in shock have been known to do very unusual and dangerous things.  Mrs. Kennedy's actions captured in both the Zapruder and Nix films after the fatal shot is a prime example, and so is what the governor did. He knew someone was shooting at the occupants of the limousine, yet he did not make an attempt to get himself out of harms way.

 In a nutshell, I think it's impossible to rely strictly on Governor Connally's description of the shooting, when the Zapruder film shows some of the opposite of what he said he did.
The first sudden reaction seen by JBC upon entering Elm Street is his head turn from right to left.  Then, within 1/4 of a second, snap his head back to his right, where he remained transfixed the rest of the way down the street until he emrges from behind the Stemmons Freeway sign, when his shoulders hunch twice in rapid succession as the second shot/bullet strikes him in the back after exiting JFK's throat.   Both men can be seen reacting violently and simultaneously in the Zapruder film, meaning one bullet struck both men. 

[Charles Collins]

 It seems to me that Andrew Mason and others who don't believe that JBC and JFK were struck with the same bullet--and/or other reasons because of JBC's reactions--are either unaware, have forgotten about, or just don't know that Governor Connally did STRANGE, unreal things after being shot, that appear in both the Nix and Zapruder films.  Although difficult to see in the Orville Nix film after the fatal shot was fired, according to the Zappruder film, plus Mrs. JBC's testimony JBC falls or is pulled to his left by his wife, and stayed low for only a second before he raised back up and turned to look to the rear into the back seat as we lose him behind the foliage from the pyracantha bush bwtween Zapruder and the limousine.   After two seconds pass, he comes back into view once again, just before the limousine disappears beneath the underpass.

 I first wrote about this in 1999 titled which John McAdams published on his Website.  https://www.jfk-assassination.net/looking.htm    Years later, a researcher named Gerda Dunckel released a video on YouTube titled " Zapruder Stabilized JFK Or Connally?", in which she stabillized the Zapruder film beginning with frame 221 and continuing until the final frame of the film, with her focus on John Connally by placing "Crosshairs" over his image in the film, and asking the question about who is sitting erect-JFK or the governor-as the limousine approaches the underpass.  View the video here:

  Did the governor ever once mention rising back up in his seat?   No.  Not until the car reached Parkland Hospital, when he said he "Heaved himself up" to get out of the way of the people trying to reach JFK.  Obviously, the governor went into some type of shock upon being struck by the bullet he received.  Why else would he never mention sitting completely erect in his seat as the limousine entered the triple underpass, or again, as early as while Mrs. Kennedy is rising from the back seat to exit the limousine?  People suffering with being in shock have been known to do very unusual and dangerous things.  Mrs. Kennedy's actions captured in both the Zapruder and Nix films after the fatal shot is a prime example, and so is what the governor did. He knew someone was shooting at the occupants of the limousine, yet he did not make an attempt to get himself out of harms way.

 In a nutshell, I think it's impossible to rely strictly on Governor Connally's description of the shooting, when the Zapruder film shows some of the opposite of what he said he did.
The first sudden reaction seen by JBC upon entering Elm Street is his head turn from right to left.  Then, within 1/4 of a second, snap his head back to his right, where he remained transfixed the rest of the way down the street until he emrges from behind the Stemmons Freeway sign, when his shoulders hunch twice in rapid succession as the second shot/bullet strikes him in the back after exiting JFK's throat.   Both men can be seen reacting violently and simultaneously in the Zapruder film, meaning one bullet struck both men.

Thanks Steve! I have seen some of Gerda’s excellent work. But I had never seen this video before. It is another excellent one and it is interesting because it does conflict with what JBC said.

[Charles Collins]

You are contesting it.  But you don't challenge the evidence that supports it.  You maintain a theory that requires JFK to not react to the first shot for several seconds and to smile and wave for several seconds afterward, despite the lack of a single witness who recalled seeing that and dozens who said he reacted quickly.  You insist that JBC was hit in the back by the same bullet that struck JFK despite not having a single witness who said that occurred and JBC, Nellie, Powers, Gayle Newman, Hickey and Greer who gave evidence that it did not. And you ignore the vast majority of witnesses who recalled the shot pattern with the last two shots close together.
I was just responding to Mr. Zeon's suggesting that he turned to the right because his legs were to the right.  JBC said he turned around to check on JFK.  Why would he have first turned to his left to see JFK?
That makes no sense. When do we see JFK leaning forward prior to z224?  When are you suggesting that JBC turned around to try to see JFK?   

So long as the knees are well above the hips, that is all you need.  The legs will be apart. Try it.

Was it a slight wound or a wound that he must have felt?  Dr. Shires said it went down to the femur.  Obviously, you think he was wrong. I don't.   You can't say he must have felt it because a. he didn't and b. many people who are shot do not feel it.  You have yet to respond to the video I posted.  Here is another:

Here is a quote from the narrator beginning around 1:15: "Many people recount that within the first few moments of being hit by a bullet they didn't feel anything at all."
You disagree with much of what the Connallys said.  I just disagree with a few minor details.  JBC himself said he was not sure where he was facing when hit in the back.  He recalled deciding to turn to his left to check on JFK and thought he was facing forward when hit.  I do not think that he was correct in that statement.  Neither did Nellie. She said he was turned to the right when hit.

You maintain a theory that requires JFK to not react to the first shot for several seconds and to smile and wave for several seconds afterward, despite the lack of a single witness who recalled seeing that and dozens who said he reacted quickly.

The Warren Commission indicated that they could not determine which shot missed. Although I have indicated that I believe that the first shot missed, I have not closed my mind to other possibilities. If another one of the shots missed, the reaction of JFK would fit with the witness accounts that you cite. That would make much more sense than your idea does.


You insist that JBC was hit in the back by the same bullet that struck JFK despite not having a single witness who said that occurred and JBC, Nellie, Powers, Gayle Newman, Hickey and Greer who gave evidence that it did not.

Charles Brehm was one of the closest witnesses and he said he came up with the single bullet idea right away. When the Warren Report came out and confirmed his idea, he felt that they got it right. So, please correct yourself regarding “not a single witness who said…” Also, even JBC said in his book that he could be wrong, and he is the one who was shot.


And you ignore the vast majority of witnesses who recalled the shot pattern with the last two shots close together.

If there was a first shot miss that occurred near Z133, as some evidence suggests, then that pattern would be okay. Also, many of the witness accounts indicate the last two shots extremely close together. I suggest that those accounts are people who heard the bullet impact before the sound of the muzzle blast reached them. Therefore, those accounts should not be counted as hearing three separate shots.



JBC said he turned around to check on JFK.

Actually JBC’s testimony is that he turned as an instinctive reaction to the sound of the shot. Then when he didn’t catch JFK in the corner of his eye, he started to turn the other way in order to look over his left shoulder.


When do we see JFK leaning forward prior to z224?  When are you suggesting that JBC turned around to try to see JFK?

Some people claim that JFK turned his head sharply to the left just before he disappears behind the sign (see Don Roberdeaux’s map notes). Personally, I have not been able to discern this. However, if he did, this could be the beginning of his reaction to a shot. It appears to me that JBC described a very quick instinctive reaction to the shot, and that it could have simply been a head turn (he was already facing partially to his right) while he was obscured behind the sign, in the Z-film. Again, JBC tells us that his reaction was an instinctive reaction to the sound of the shot (not an intentional turn in order to check on JFK). It was only because he didn’t see JFK out of the corner of his eye during that instinctive reaction that he decided to turn to try to see JFK.


So long as the knees are well above the hips, that is all you need.  The legs will be apart. Try it.

I have, and I disagree with you completely.



Dr. Shires said it went down to the femur.

Not the bullet, only a very small particle [that was shed off of the bullet]. He said the bullet only penetrated as far as the muscle (just below the skin).


You can't say he must have felt it because a. he didn't and b. many people who are shot do not feel it.

He also said he didn’t feel his wrist being shattered and only discovered that injury when he woke up in the hospital after the surgery. The reason is because of his back/chest wounds.

[Charles Collins]

You are contesting it.  But you don't challenge the evidence that supports it.  You maintain a theory that requires JFK to not react to the first shot for several seconds and to smile and wave for several seconds afterward, despite the lack of a single witness who recalled seeing that and dozens who said he reacted quickly.  You insist that JBC was hit in the back by the same bullet that struck JFK despite not having a single witness who said that occurred and JBC, Nellie, Powers, Gayle Newman, Hickey and Greer who gave evidence that it did not. And you ignore the vast majority of witnesses who recalled the shot pattern with the last two shots close together.
I was just responding to Mr. Zeon's suggesting that he turned to the right because his legs were to the right.  JBC said he turned around to check on JFK.  Why would he have first turned to his left to see JFK?
That makes no sense. When do we see JFK leaning forward prior to z224?  When are you suggesting that JBC turned around to try to see JFK?   

So long as the knees are well above the hips, that is all you need.  The legs will be apart. Try it.

Was it a slight wound or a wound that he must have felt?  Dr. Shires said it went down to the femur.  Obviously, you think he was wrong. I don't.   You can't say he must have felt it because a. he didn't and b. many people who are shot do not feel it.  You have yet to respond to the video I posted.  Here is another:

Here is a quote from the narrator beginning around 1:15: "Many people recount that within the first few moments of being hit by a bullet they didn't feel anything at all."
You disagree with much of what the Connallys said.  I just disagree with a few minor details.  JBC himself said he was not sure where he was facing when hit in the back.  He recalled deciding to turn to his left to check on JFK and thought he was facing forward when hit.  I do not think that he was correct in that statement.  Neither did Nellie. She said he was turned to the right when hit.

He recalled deciding to turn to his left to check on JFK and thought he was facing forward when hit.  I do not think that he was correct in that statement.  Neither did Nellie. She said he was turned to the right when hit.

And here is where the theory that you seem to be infatuated with can be applied properly. JBC testified that he was in the process of turning when he felt the “fist” hit him in the back. It appears possible to me that JBC is already in the process of turning as he reappears from behind the sign in the Z-film. It might have taken a very short time for that pain to “register” in his consciousness. Also, if you watch Nellie in Jerry’s closeup slow motion GIF, she first looks back at JFK and then looks at JBC after seeing JFK’s reaction. She might not have realized that JBC had already been shot if she didn’t see his initial reaction (around Z224).

[Mitch Todd]

Dr. Shires said it went down to the femur.

That's not what Shaw actually said. He said that he debrided tissue "down to the region of the femur."

"The region of the femur" is a non-specific phrase that could mean anywhere relatively close to the bone. More importantly, he's the guy digging the hole that deep. The bullet wound is generally not as deep as the debrided volume around it, and as any Fackler will tell you, surgeons were in the habit of over-treating these wounds by removing too much tissue. 

[Andrew Mason]

You maintain a theory that requires JFK to not react to the first shot for several seconds and to smile and wave for several seconds afterward, despite the lack of a single witness who recalled seeing that and dozens who said he reacted quickly.

The Warren Commission indicated that they could not determine which shot missed. Although I have indicated that I believe that the first shot missed, I have not closed my mind to other possibilities. If another one of the shots missed, the reaction of JFK would fit with the witness accounts that you cite. That would make much more sense than your idea does.

And in their analysis they presented all the evidence for each of the shots definitely not missing.  There is really no definite witness testimony of any shot missing and certainly no physical evidence.

You insist that JBC was hit in the back by the same bullet that struck JFK despite not having a single witness who said that occurred and JBC, Nellie, Powers, Gayle Newman, Hickey and Greer who gave evidence that it did not.

Charles Brehm was one of the closest witnesses and he said he came up with the single bullet idea right away. When the Warren Report came out and confirmed his idea, he felt that they got it right. So, please correct yourself regarding “not a single witness who said…” Also, even JBC said in his book that he could be wrong, and he is the one who was shot.

You cannot be referring to anything said by Brehm in his statements. In his interview with the Dallas Times Herald on 22Nov63 he recalled only two shots in total and JFK reacting to both. 

In a later FBI statement he described the same two shots but added that there was a third shot afterward. He said the President was very close at the time of the first shot. 

He was very detailed in both statements about JFK’s facial and bodily reactions to the first shot. In his FBI statement he said he thought the President was badly hit in the head but he describes seeing the President’s hair fly up on the second shot. No mention of his head exploding or even seeing blood. The hair flying up does not describe the dominant impression of the head shot.

He mentioned a third shot after that but does not describe any effect.  Mind you he was there with his 5 year old son so he may have been momentarily distracted. So his failure to notice the effect of the third shot may be because he had stopped looking at the President by the time of the third shot.

 What Brehm does not mention is seeing any reaction of JBC on any shot, so I am not sure how anyone can say he observed a shot hit both men.  His observation of JFK’s hair flying up on the second shot (which Hickey also observed at the time of the second shot) and his subsequent learning of JFK being shot in the head may explain why he thought the second shot struck him in the head.

And you ignore the vast majority of witnesses who recalled the shot pattern with the last two shots close together.

If there was a first shot miss that occurred near Z133, as some evidence suggests, then that pattern would be okay. Also, many of the witness accounts indicate the last two shots extremely close together. I suggest that those accounts are people who heard the bullet impact before the sound of the muzzle blast reached them. Therefore, those accounts should not be counted as hearing three separate shots.

Very few said the last two were that close. Even Brehm said they sounded like they were spaced “just about as quickly as an individual can manoeuvre a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.” 22H837

That is a hard to fit with three shots over 10 seconds.

JBC said he turned around to check on JFK.

Actually JBC’s testimony is that he turned as an instinctive reaction to the sound of the shot. Then when he didn’t catch JFK in the corner of his eye, he started to turn the other way in order to look over his left shoulder.

He also said he was interested in seeing JFK because he recognized the sound as a rifle shot and feared an assassination taking place. So his purpose in turning around was to see the President.

So long as the knees are well above the hips, that is all you need.  The legs will be apart. Try it.

I have, and I disagree with you completely.

You naturally sit with your legs up well above your hips with your legs together?

Dr. Shires said it went down to the femur.

Not the bullet, only a very small particle [that was shed off of the bullet]. He said the bullet only penetrated as far as the muscle (just below the skin).

Shires said the bullet passed through the subcutaneous fat and penetrated the outer thigh muscle. How does it embed lead in the femur without the butt end of the bullet striking the femur? Explain the physics of that for us.

You can't say he must have felt it because a. he didn't and b. many people who are shot do not feel it.

He also said he didn’t feel his wrist being shattered and only discovered that injury when he woke up in the hospital after the surgery. The reason is because of his back/chest wounds.

But you cannot conclude that he must have felt it immediately or even likely felt it immediately without evidence. The evidence is a. That he never felt it and b. many if not most people feel nothing initially from being shot when they remain conscious and the bullet produces no immediate functional impairment.

[Charles Collins]

He said it went through the skin and subcutaneous fat and penetrated the thigh muscle. He said he disagreed with the suggestion that it did not penetrate far. How does a fragment embed itself in the femur without the rest of the bullet?

You can't say he must have felt it because a. he didn't and b. many people who are shot do not feel it.

He also said he didn’t feel his wrist being shattered and only discovered that injury when he woke up in the hospital after the surgery. The reason is because of his back/chest wounds.

Ok. So how can you say he must have felt it if it occurred separately from the other wounds?

Charles Brehm from “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed, pages 62-63:


Within hours after the knowledge was given to me that Connally was also wounded, I said the only thing that I could think of was that a bullet that went through the President had also obviously hit Connally because there were only three shots fired: one went wild and two hit the President. The question then was how could it have happened? At that time, it was very easy for me to open up my shirt and show the bullet wound in what was the solar plexus, to come over here and show the exit wound where it passed through my body and came out between my ribs; then the second part of the bullet, the damage, because the bullet was softened and out of shape, tore my arm apart. One bullet did that to me! Any questions that night about what a single bullet can do, my God, I was living proof of it that day!


Edit: I don’t know what the problem is. But I was trying to respond to the part of your post where you commented about Charles Brehm.