Oswald's Escape Route Time Trial

[Fergus O'Brien]

hello bill its been a while , we go back to bob harris old forum .i hope you are well .

"The Secret Service and the FBI reconstructed Oswald's steps (with the help of Cecil McWatters and William Whaley) in an attempt to determine the absolute earliest that Oswald could have reached the rooming house." bill

well oswald may or may not have been on that bus , but i am  not sure what value mcwatters is , as he never identified oswald as the man on the bus . in fact if memory serves me he went to the line up believing he was identifying a young man on his bus who he said was grinning , called roy milton jones . he never positively identified  oswald from any line up . and in fact if i remember correctly both jones and mcwatters said the man on the bus wore a jacket , which contradicts bledsoe who i think is wholly unreliable . she said she saw oswald at about 12.40 on the bus wearing a shirt that was torn , buttons ripped from it and a hole in the elbow .that is quite a case of psychic ability given the damage she said she saw at about 12.40 would not occur for atleast a further hour at about 1.50 .

the transfer has long bothered me .i have no reason to doubt mcwatters gave out two transfers , i believe he told the truth .  but all he could say was one was given to a woman and the other to a man in a jacket .as i said he never identified the man as oswald , he only thought it was oswald and he only mentioned it might have been oswald to milton jones the nest day because he was led to believe by the police that oswald was the man on the bus .but in regard the transfer i have seen photos of it . now if one gave it no thought at all well it could be very easily accepted that that transfer was indeed in oswalds shirt pocket . but we have to consider the scuffle that took place at the theater and how many cops were involved , the condition of oswalds shirt after this encounter with the police at the theater and the manner in which he and the shirt were man handled by the police seen in photos taken at the time . how many pounced on oswald ? . look at the condition of the shirt ,torn and buttons ripped off and look at how the cops seen in photos are pulling and dragging at oswalds shirt while removing him from the theater .

now lets look at the transfer



can anyone see the problem i have with that transfer ? , there is not a wrinkle or crease in it , i cant see how that is possible given what i said above .

but even if we accept that oswald rode on the bus and in the cab it only proves he went home .whalley was not a great witness either in the sense that he admitted seeing oswalds face i believe in a newspaper before he went to a line up . and at the line up he said ANYONE WOULD HAVE PICKED OSWALD .why ? because he was complaining to the cops who if memory serves were putting him (a 24 year old man who looked atleast 30) in to a line up with teen boys one of whom was latino DARK COMPLECTED .and these were the line ups that the late jim leavelle said were fairly conducted lol .

how many times did whalley have to drive the route in order to get the time down to a time that suited ?. i think the earliest oswald can have arrived home at best was 1 and perhaps 2 minutes before 1pm so we are it seems not far apart in that respect ..we then have to allow for that which you make no allowances for .  that he was in his room several minutes , 3 or 4 according to roberts where he changed his slacks and shirt . and we further have to allow that he was still stood outside at the bus stop a time after he had left the rooming house .roberts said he did not leave the bus stop while she was looking .i believe he was still on beckley at 1.03 or 1.04 pm . at that even if we say he took macks short route well he still arrives too late .

[Fergus O'Brien]

I think Oswald got to the rooming house between 12:58 and 1:00

Earlene Roberts said that she was trying to get the television to work, to watch the 1:00 news, when Oswald walked in, so you're estimation may well be correct.

and was back in his room just long enough to grab a jacket before hurrying out the door,

I'm not so sure about this, because Oswald told investigators that he changed clothes, which would make sense after having worked in a dusty warehouse.

hi martin i myself had a job not unlike oswalds job at the depository . when you deal all day handling boxes and packages of books , magazines , newspapers with print ink on them believe me your hands and clothes show clear signs of it .i am sure our lone nut advocate friends here will try to argue that oswald filled no orders that day but his fellow workers said he did .but i must assume that as he went home thursday night to marina that the clothes he wore on friday morning were the same clothes he wore to work on thursday .so they would be dirty believe me .

[Richard Smith]

hi martin i myself had a job not unlike oswalds job at the depository . when you deal all day handling boxes and packages of books , magazines , newspapers with print ink on them believe me your hands and clothes show clear signs of it .i am sure our lone nut advocate friends here will try to argue that oswald filled no orders that day but his fellow workers said he did .but i must assume that as he went home thursday night to marina that the clothes he wore on friday morning were the same clothes he wore to work on thursday .so they would be dirty believe me .

Oswald was suddenly concerned with wearing "dirty clothes" that day?  He didn't have a problem wearing them before he fled the assassination.  He put them on that morning expecting to wear them for the entire day unless he knew that he would be assassinating the president and knocking off early for the movies. 

[Martin Weidmann]

hi martin i myself had a job not unlike oswalds job at the depository . when you deal all day handling boxes and packages of books , magazines , newspapers with print ink on them believe me your hands and clothes show clear signs of it .i am sure our lone nut advocate friends here will try to argue that oswald filled no orders that day but his fellow workers said he did .but i must assume that as he went home thursday night to marina that the clothes he wore on friday morning were the same clothes he wore to work on thursday .so they would be dirty believe me .

i must assume that as he went home thursday night to marina that the clothes he wore on friday morning were the same clothes he wore to work on thursday

Why must you assume that? Marina did his washing, so it's not unlikely some of his clothes were at Ruth Paine's house.

Oswald was suddenly concerned with wearing "dirty clothes" that day?  He didn't have a problem wearing them before he fled the assassination.  He put them on that morning expecting to wear them for the entire day unless he knew that he would be assassinating the president and knocking off early for the movies.

Another pointless reply from a guy who constantly talks as if he knows exactly what Oswald was thinking.

[Martin Weidmann]

During Oswald's alleged "escape route" he is supposed to have worn a light gray jacket, which was later found on a car at a car park near Jefferson. That, at least, is the official narrative.

However, in his testimony, Wesley Buell Frazier saw Oswald wearing a jacket which he described as "gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking"

Mr. BALL - On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What color was the jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.
Mr. BALL - Did it have a zipper on it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.

Frazier was adamant that it wasn't CE 163, which he claimed he had never seen before.

As Marina confirmed that Oswald had only two jackets, being CE 162 and CE 163, and Frazier clearly dismissed CE 163, it is fair to assume that Frazier did indeed see Oswald wear CE 162 to Irving on Thursday evening. It's either that, or Marina was wrong and Oswald did in fact have three jackets instead of two.

But when asked in her testimony, Marina identified CE 162 as the gray jacket that Lee was wearing when he arrived in Irving.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall any of these clothes that your husband was wearing when he came home Thursday night, November 21, 1963?
Mrs. OSWALD. On Thursday I think he wore this shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Is that Exhibit 150?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember anything else he was wearing at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems he had that jacket, also.
Mr. RANKIN. Exhibit 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And the pants, Exhibit 157?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. But I am not sure. This is as much as I can remember.

So, now we have two people who, although not 100% sure, say they saw Oswald wearing CE 162 in Irving on Thursday evening.

The only person who saw Oswald leaving the roominghouse on Friday afternoon was Earlene Roberts. She said that Oswald was wearing a jacket but failed to identify CE 162.

Mr. BALL. You say he put on a separate jacket?
Mrs. ROBERTS. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that. Now, I won't be sure, because I really don't know, but is that a zipper jacket?
Mr. BALL. Yes---it has a zipper down the front.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe it was.
Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.

The official narrative tells us that Oswald's dark-gray jacket CE 163 was later found at the TSBD, which justifies the assumption that he must have worn that jacket to work on Friday 11/22/63. This in turn means of course that he must have left his gray jacket CE 162 in Irving.

So, the crucial question to answer is; how did a jacket (CE 162) that was last seen in Irving on Thursday evening end up at the roominghouse on Friday afternoon, for Oswald to put on, or, alternatively, how did it it end up being presented by Captain Westbrook at the evidence room as the jacket found under a parked car that was earlier described as being white and why did that gray jacket have initials on it from police officers who were no where near the car park where the jacket allegedly was found?

[John Iacoletti]

Benavides did not wait a few minutes. Callaway was at the car dealership when he heard the shots. He saw a man running down Patton holding a revolver. After the man passed him, he ran to 10th streets. By the time he got there, which didn't take more than three minutes, Benavides had already made his failed attempt on the radio and Bowley was already on the scene and had talked to the DPD dispatcher for 48 seconds (as per the actual recording). There simply wasn't any time for Benavides to have stayed in his car for minutes.

Except Callaway didn’t say how long it was before he ran up to 10th. He supposedly watched the man go down to Jefferson and turn the corner first. Also, how can you tell by any of the radio recordings when Callaway got there, or how much time had elapsed since the shots?

[John Iacoletti]

Oswald was suddenly concerned with wearing "dirty clothes" that day?  He didn't have a problem wearing them before he fled the assassination.

“Fled the assassination”. LOL.