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Author Topic: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?  (Read 100255 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #112 on: September 20, 2023, 08:44:56 PM »
The Darnell clip in question has Baker racing across the Elm Street extension.
Is this supposed to have taken place almost four minutes after the assassination?

Obviously, Mr. O'Meara------------we have the credible testimony of Messrs. Lovelady & Shelley on that score.

All kidding aside...................... don't fret, I was just playing along with Messrs. Welch & Collins' gag. And it was a good one, in fairness

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #113 on: September 20, 2023, 09:38:08 PM »
Obviously, Mr. O'Meara------------we have the credible testimony of Messrs. Lovelady & Shelley on that score.

All kidding aside...................... don't fret, I was just playing along with Messrs. Welch & Collins' gag. And it was a good one, in fairness

Phew!  8)
I thought things were just about to go sideways.
So, back to the original point - the man in the baggy, dark suit cannot be MacNeil.
After getting off the bus MacNeil heads directly for the Grassy Knoll.
It would be good to get an exact timing of when the Couch clip begins but an approximation of 25 seconds after the shooting ends shouldn't be too far wide of the mark.
There is no way MacNeil can get to the Grassy Knoll, then the TSBD steps in this time.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #114 on: September 20, 2023, 11:26:12 PM »
Phew!  8)
I thought things were just about to go sideways.
So, back to the original point - the man in the baggy, dark suit cannot be MacNeil.
After getting off the bus MacNeil heads directly for the Grassy Knoll.
It would be good to get an exact timing of when the Couch clip begins but an approximation of 25 seconds after the shooting ends shouldn't be too far wide of the mark.
There is no way MacNeil can get to the Grassy Knoll, then the TSBD steps in this time.


Which film does this clip come from? Where can it be found in the context of the rest of the film?



Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2023, 11:53:49 PM »

Which film does this clip come from? Where can it be found in the context of the rest of the film?





It's a clip from Jimmy Darnell's film.
Like the Couch film it shows the moment of Baker's dash towards the TSBD building.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 11:55:12 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2023, 12:26:32 AM »


It's a clip from Jimmy Darnell's film.
Like the Couch film it shows the moment of Baker's dash towards the TSBD building.


Thanks, some of the versions of the Couch Darnell film online don’t show that part of it. I agree that MacNeil was elsewhere according to his statements and the other photograph shown in this thread that shows him near the railroad tracks.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 12:43:26 AM by Charles Collins »

Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2023, 01:05:02 AM »

Thanks, some of the versions of the Couch Darnell film online don’t show that part of it. I agree that MacNeil was elsewhere according to his statements and the other photograph shown in this thread that shows him near the railroad tracks.

Hi Charles and Dan, MacNeil was actually on the press bus when Couch and Darnell were filming! I agree. The man at the bottom of the steps cannot be MacNeil. I stand corrected! Thank you both for your valuable input! Sincerely yours, Michael
   

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2023, 04:23:46 PM »
Hi Charles and Dan, MacNeil was actually on the press bus when Couch and Darnell were filming! I agree. The man at the bottom of the steps cannot be MacNeil. I stand corrected! Thank you both for your valuable input! Sincerely yours, Michael
 

This brings us back to the identification of this man as Bill Shelley.
In what follows I am going to use an estimation of 25 seconds after the head-shot for when the Darnell clip begins. It is an assumption in lieu of an exact timing but cannot be too far from the actual time.
I would like to examine the feasibility of the scenario I outlined in Reply#171, which was my personal opinion of the identification of Calvery on the steps of the TSBD building as shown in the Darnell clip.



From her position marked on the map above, Calvery runs up to the position marked A, where she passes Shelley, who has come from the front steps.
The distance from Calvery's position to the front steps is approximately 150 feet (using Roberdeau's scale). At a modest run of 8mph this distance can be covered in less than 13 seconds. In the 25 seconds allotted she would have to reach point"A", interact with Shelley, then point "B", interact with officer Smith, then reach the TSBD steps.
Shelley, Lovelady and Smith make the point that Gloria was running (I'm assuming the hysterical woman is Gloria). Both her interactions [with Shelley and Smith] appear to be quick - she simply tells Shelley the President has been shot and as soon as she tells Smith that shots were coming from the"bushes" he immediately heads off in that direction.
In the Darnell clip we first see Smith about half way up the Elm Street extension heading towards the bushes that would've been directly behind Calvery's position as she stood on Elm Street. If we can extrapolate Smith's movements "backwards" it seems reasonable to assume he has crossed paths with Gloria some 5 - 10 seconds before the Darnell clip begins.
In the Darnell clip Gloria, wearing a black headscarf and stood about 2 or 3 steps up, appears to be facing a bald-headed man who takes a steps down towards her. This is Lovelady, who recounts his interaction with Gloria while he is on the front steps. It is around this moment that Frazier, stood at the top of the steps, recalls a woman in distress, telling the people on the steps about the shooting, in a "low kind of hollering".
Baker reaches the area near the bottom of the steps towards the end of the clip around which time he reports a woman screaming "They shot that man" or something to that effect.
Shelley, who ran across the street to around point "A", returns to the bottom of the front steps and can be seen in the Darnell clip as he reaches this position - he takes a step or two towards Gloria, then turns to his left, facing down the Elm Street extension towards the railroad.







« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 04:26:59 PM by Dan O'meara »