Where Did Prayer Woman Go After The Shooting?

[Zeon Mason]

Mr.Doyle certainly is giving an  argument to consider IF the points are reasonably correct and are not exaggerated.

1. IF it’s definite that Frazier stated that Sarah Stanton was in deep shadow or completely in shadow, then that would rule out the fluffy white blob with both hands raised shading the eyes in Altgens 6 photo as Stanton because that person was in FULL sunlight.

2. If it’s true that Stanton’s LOS was blocked and she could not see the JFK limo then it’s also unlikely that white blob is Stanton because there a pretty good LOS from that east side of the handrail across(east of)  Lovelady since Altgens 6 photo seems to show the LOS From Altgens position TO the TSBD entrance is fairly clear.

Here I could point out that although the fluffy  white blobs LOS isn’t blocked by a wall as with PM, that there’s still some possible obstruction by the heads of persons between white blob and the JFK limo.

But if no.1 above is accurate , then white blob is already ruled out  by being in total sunlight, and the point is irrelevant.

3. The overlay of Oswald’s body shape MAY be LESS in volume than what PMs total volume of body shape appears to be. (However, if Oswald was wearing his dark blue jacket also and those sleeves up as well, his bulk might appear more a match).

Since it appears that the dark blue jacket was left in the Domino room to be found a month later, then it would be kind of an odd action if PM is Oswald wearing the jacket because why would he return into the building and take off the jacket if he was about to leave in a hurry as early as 3 minutes post shots?

4. IF Buell W. Frazier is using phrase “to my left” and he means that as the left side of the TSBD entrance from the perspective from Altgens position, then BWFs head turned westward slightly as in Altgens 6 photo would be consistent with ALMOST looking towards PM.

However BEF would have had to continue turning the head in clockwise rotation further to  the NORTHWEST to actually make eye contact with PM who was slightly behind the right shoulder of BWF.

5. IF it’s true that there’s some proof that the all white fat lady with white hair in Owens goes all dark gray and hair goes black, when in the The PM position in Darnell then there’s no problem. Maybe Mr. Doyle could post some photos of an actual similar fat person about 5’-4” and 300 lbs with white hair who has been recently photographed with black and white film to further convince some of us a little more.

6. One point that I’m not sure Mr. Doyle made which is that theres no statement from Stanton describing seeing DPD police officer Baker running to the TSBD or bypassing Stanton, In contrast to Sanders who DID see Baker most likely because Sanders remained where she said she was just east of the front door on the top landing.

Therefore it’s almost a logical deduction that Stanton had to have moved away from Sanders ( ie: away from blocking the front door with her 300lb girth) to some other location.

This is where I ran into trouble the last time trying to posit that the west corner being a space not occupied would be a logical place for the fat lady to move to so as to be out of the way.

The counter argument to this was that Mr. Williams ( a fat man himself) plus Shelly, plus BWF , all standing on the upper landing of which was only about 4.5 ft in depth, would be an obstacle to Stanton moving over to the west corner.

Maybe that was not so much an obstacle as was suggested however.

[Michael Welch]

Hi Brian, In Darnell, Gloria Calvery, if she is the lady in black under Maddie Reese, is blocking the view of Prayer Man, correct? Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael

[Dan O'meara]

Hi Dan, I hope you are doing well. Can you please supply the clip. I cannot find Gerda's. I just went frame by frame in Duncan's and Robin's fantastic photo gallery and saw them together until they disappeared out of sight. In the Darnell frame, do you still see Shelley and Lovelady? If so, can you please point them out. Thank you for your reply! Sincerely yours, Michael



I just went through the frames again, in this frame they are about to meet a lady, Gloria Calvery, they talk for awhile, then she continues on towards the entrance of the TSBD.

It seems pretty clear to me the men aren't walking together. The man behind overtakes the other and is moving far more quickly. If the clip had run for another couple of seconds they'd be nowhere near each other.
And the woman you think they are meeting actually runs straight by them.

As far as I know this clip was originally posted by Alan Ford.



It's my opinion that on the steps we see the moment Gloria Calvery tells Billy Lovelady about the assassination.
Calvery has on a black headscarf and appears to be facing a man who is a step higher up. She is accompanied by either Karen Hicks or Carol Reed [the lady in white].
I believe Shelley can be seen walking towards the bottom of the steps [the man in the dark, baggy suit].

[Alan Ford]

Amazing that some folks still cling to the 'identification' of Messrs. Shelley and 'plaid-shirted' Lovelady in Couch. 'Shelley' is in fact Mr. Danny Arce. We don't know who 'Lovelady' is.............

[Michael Welch]

Hi Dan and Alan, I hope that you both are doing well. I can only concede at this time that Billy and Bill did not encounter Gloria Calvery. I see no problem with them walking and then Billy running, and it appears that Bill is starting to before they are out of the film. Sincerely yours, Michael

[Dan O'meara]

Hi Dan and Alan, I hope that you both are doing well. I can only concede at this time that Billy and Bill did not encounter Gloria Calvery. I see no problem with them walking and then Billy running, and it appears that Bill is starting to before they are out of the film. Sincerely yours, Michael

At least you can see they aren't walking together.
In his affidavit, taken a couple of hours after the assassination, Shelley states that after he heard the three shots he ran across the street "to the corner of the park" where he runs into Calvery coming the other way. She was crying and told him JFK had been shot. Shelley then returns to the TSBD building steps, presumably following Calvery, who Lovelady reports, comes running up to his position on the steps.
In his WC testimony Lovelady makes it clear that he is still on the steps when Calvery comes up to him and tells him JFK has been shot. It is after this he and Shelley head towards the railroad (something they both omit in their affidavits).
IMO, the clip in question shows Calvery at the steps with Shelley returning to the steps.

The identification of Shelley and Lovelady you are proposing is strained for a couple of reasons.
1) The men aren't walking together in the Darnell clip.
2) For Lovelady to be one of the men he would've had to have had his encounter with Calvery before this moment. This is highly unlikely.

These points are definitely worth considering.

[Michael Welch]

At least you can see they aren't walking together.
In his affidavit, taken a couple of hours after the assassination, Shelley states that after he heard the three shots he ran across the street "to the corner of the park" where he runs into Calvery coming the other way. She was crying and told him JFK had been shot. Shelley then returns to the TSBD building steps, presumably following Calvery, who Lovelady reports, comes running up to his position on the steps.
In his WC testimony Lovelady makes it clear that he is still on the steps when Calvery comes up to him and tells him JFK has been shot. It is after this he and Shelley head towards the railroad (something they both omit in their affidavits).
IMO, the clip in question shows Calvery at the steps with Shelley returning to the steps.

The identification of Shelley and Lovelady you are proposing is strained for a couple of reasons.
1) The men aren't walking together in the Darnell clip.
2) For Lovelady to be one of the men he would've had to have had his encounter with Calvery before this moment. This is highly unlikely.

These points are definitely worth considering.

Hi Dan and Alan, Unfortunately I have known for a long time that it is 100% Billy and Bill in Couch. I just cannot post the pictures because of the porno site. But put in Billy Lovelady JFK and when the Billy Nolan Lovelady at Prayer Man comes up click on it and look at the huge Richard E. Sprague picture of Billy and Bill in Couch. Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael