Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!

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Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2023, 12:16:31 PM »
Markham describes the man walking east with the police car cruising slowly behind him. The car pulls over and the man moves towards the car, now facing west. This seems to be when Scoggins first becomes aware of him. Benevides arrives on the scene just as Tippit is shot.

LATER EDIT:
It is one of those annoying coincidences that Oswald is seen around 1:00pm by Roberts at the rooming house and the nearest point to the rooming house that the bus transfer ticket can be used is point A in the pic above and it must be used by 1:15pm. Someone leaving the rooming house around 1:00pm trying to make the transfer point at "A" by 1:15pm could have been in the right place at the right time for the Tippit murder.
It's an intriguing possibility.

Someone leaving the rooming house around 1:00pm trying to make the transfer point at "A" by 1:15pm could have been in the right place at the right time for the Tippit murder.

That depends when Tippit was actually killed.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2023, 12:27:54 PM »
Any idea why Oswald would go to a go nowhere place like 10th street when he is supposed to be on the run after killing Kennedy?

What exactly do you think Oswald should have done after killing the president?  Do you think that a guy with no access to a car or much money had a good escape plan?  Oswald was likely as surprised as anyone that he got out of the TSBD.  Death or arrest was always part of his decision to go forward with the assassination.  There was no getting away.  At best, he might have slipped out of Dallas and tried to make his way to Mexico.  In his twisted brain, maybe he hoped to reach the Cuban embassy and request asylum.  But there was no good escape plan from a crime of the magnitude that he committed.  He was basically just playing his hand out until the authorities caught up with him.  It's humorous to imply that because he was encountered in a "nowhere place" that this somehow calls into question his involvement in the assassination.  To the contrary, a "nowhere place" is exactly where a criminal on the run wants to be.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2023, 01:14:33 PM »
What exactly do you think Oswald should have done after killing the president?  Do you think that a guy with no access to a car or much money had a good escape plan?  Oswald was likely as surprised as anyone that he got out of the TSBD.  Death or arrest was always part of his decision to go forward with the assassination.  There was no getting away.  At best, he might have slipped out of Dallas and tried to make his way to Mexico.  In his twisted brain, maybe he hoped to reach the Cuban embassy and request asylum.  But there was no good escape plan from a crime of the magnitude that he committed.  He was basically just playing his hand out until the authorities caught up with him.  It's humorous to imply that because he was encountered in a "nowhere place" that this somehow calls into question his involvement in the assassination.  To the contrary, a "nowhere place" is exactly where a criminal on the run wants to be.

Oswald was likely as surprised as anyone that he got out of the TSBD.  Death or arrest was always part of his decision to go forward with the assassination.

He told you that, did he? Or are you simply making things up again?

At best, he might have slipped out of Dallas and tried to make his way to Mexico.

If he was really on the run, that would seem to have been a better option than walking to a residencial area and killing a cop to draw more attention to himself.

But there was no good escape plan from a crime of the magnitude that he committed.

Maybe that's why he just bought a coke and hung around to be confronted by a police man....   :D :D :D :D

It's humorous to imply that because he was encountered in a "nowhere place" that this somehow calls into question his involvement in the assassination.

There are plenty of things that call into question his involvement in the assassination. Him being encountered in a "nowhere place" if that's what really happened isn't one of them.

To the contrary, a "nowhere place" is exactly where a criminal on the run wants to be.

Speaking from experience, are you?

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2023, 01:37:18 PM »
Markham describes the man walking east with the police car cruising slowly behind him. The car pulls over and the man moves towards the car, now facing west. This seems to be when Scoggins first becomes aware of him. Benevides arrives on the scene just as Tippit is shot.

Scoggins said he was going west, or at least facing west. William Lawrence Smith saw him walking west on 10th toward Patton. So did Jimmy Burt.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2023, 06:12:27 PM »
Scoggins said he was going west, or at least facing west. William Lawrence Smith saw him walking west on 10th toward Patton. So did Jimmy Burt.

Only two witnesses saw the shooter pulled over by Tippit - Markham and Tatum.
Both say he was walking east on 10th, they saw the police car pull over and the man stop, turn, now facing west, and approach the passenger side window of the police car.

William Lawrence Smith saw a man he was sure was Oswald walking east on 10th but never saw the interaction with Tippit.

Jimmy Burt saw a man walking west on 10th but couldn't identify him as Oswald. Burt was chatting to his friend (also called William Smith!) and saw the car pull up and a man go over to the passenger window. Burt is convinced it was the same man he saw walking down the street but stated that he had not visually followed this man down the street to the point where he approached the police car.
He also notes that Tippit rolled the passenger window down and the man lean into the window.

Burt's friend, William Arthur Smith, did not see the man walking west on 10th and didn't see the police car pulling up. He heard the shots then looked over to see Tippit fall and the shooter run off.


Markham is often lambasted as a witness but her account of the man walking east on 10th and being pulled over by Tippit is confirmed by other accounts. Tatum also sees the man walking east on 10th and the police car pulling over.
Markham recalls the man turning and approaching the passenger window and leaning in. This is also confirmed by Tatum and Jimmy Burr.
After the shooting Markham states that the shooter begin moving west down 10th, then slowing down to look at her. Benevides also recalls the shooter moving west and pausing briefly before heading south, down Patton.

William Smith simply recalls someone who he thought looked like Oswald walking west down 10th, he didn't see this man interacting with Tippit.
Jimmy Burr saw a man walking west on 10th but could not identify him as Oswald. He was chatting to his wife and his friend and when he looked over again he saw the police car pull up and a man approach it. He is convinced it was the same man but it is no more than an assumption.

The stronger witness evidence must be viewed as that of Markham and Tatum, Both have the shooter walking east on 10th.
This supports the proposed solution to Oswald's route put forward in Reply#17
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 10:30:06 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2023, 06:19:22 PM »
Someone leaving the rooming house around 1:00pm trying to make the transfer point at "A" by 1:15pm could have been in the right place at the right time for the Tippit murder.

That depends when Tippit was actually killed.

Of course.
And the exact time Oswald left the rooming house (if we assume he is the shooter).
If Oswald was  the shooter why would he be walking east up 10th?
In order for him to be at this location around the time of the shooting he must have hurried from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. Why would he be in a hurry?
The bus transfer ticket provides potential solutions for these questions.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 10:30:57 PM by Dan O'meara »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2023, 06:58:16 PM »
Of course.
And the exact time Oswald left the rooming house (if we assume he is the shooter).
If Oswald was on the shooter why would he be walking east up 10th?
In order for him to be at this location around the time of the shooting he must have hurried from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. Why would he be in a hurry?
The bus transfer ticket provides potential solutions for these questions.

he must have hurried from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. Why would he be in a hurry?

I have often wondered exactly that...

The bus transfer ticket provides potential solutions for these questions.

In theory, sure. In practice, I'm not so sure. If Oswald wanted to get to point A, he could have taken another route that seems more logical.