Challenge to Cyril Wecht

[Martin Weidmann]

One of the best Premier snipers of the Marine Corps  was Retired Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock who said that in Virginia they set up an area to duplicate the JFK Assassination so they could see how it would be to try and duplicate the Assassination of JFK and he said they could not pull it off . " Let me tell you what we did at Quantico . We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything . I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did ".        Kennedy assassination : Gunny Hathcock's take .      Hathcock had History's longest single kill-shot of 2,500 meters . that is 2,734 yards !

I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did "

Which justifies the conclusion that it most likely didn't happen the way the WC said it did.

Good luck trying to find a LN who is reasonable enough to even entertain that possibility.

[John Mytton]

I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did "

Which justifies the conclusion that it most likely didn't happen the way the WC said it did.

Good luck trying to find a LN who is reasonable enough to even entertain that possibility.

Sorry Martin but these shooters from a CBS NEWS special who were not familiar with the Italian Carcano, were replicating Oswald's shots in a much shorter timespan than the now commonly accepted 8 seconds and were all trying for about a five and a half seconds, all the while doing the shooting with a non slowing down target and exposed to the elements and one rifleman achieved 3 hits, better than Oswald. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

The stabilized Zapruder Film showing the Limo slowdown at the time of the headshot.

Btw we know that the 3 shots (which the vast majority of Dealey Plaza earwitnesses heard) were fired from just above Norman on the 5th floor of the Depository and that makes your claim that "it most likely didn't happen the way the WC said it did." absolute self serving nonsense! But I guess finding a hardcore CT who accepts the undeniable facts in this case is like finding a month of Sundays!

JohnM

[Brian Roselle]

Hathcock appeared to have had trouble duplicating the shooting. Perhaps he used a 5-6 second time limit that many have believed in since the book Six Seconds in Dallas. But another good shooter, Michael Yardley, using his best timing estimates, did not find it that difficult as mentioned in his magazine. Yardley clearly implied the Carcano was by no means a top-of-the-line gun, but it was sufficient in his 7-8 seconds testing. The following quote is from Yardley’s magazine.

“Regular readers of this magazine may remember that some years back, I was also in Dallas on the Kennedy trail. On that trip, I proved that the shots could be made with the 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano rifle allegedly used by Oswald and fitted with a cheap ‘tin-whistle’ 4 power telescopic sight.

I made them repeatedly (half a dozen times) in the required 7-8 second time frame firing from the correct height, at the correct ranges at a vehicle moving at the correct speed using an exact replica of the Oswald rifle and scope and identical ammunition. On the first run, I hit the head target as a crossing shot at about 45 yards (which apparently Oswald missed), I also connected on the next two shots at 60 plus 90 plus yards respectively. [We did the shooting on a specially built range at the levy in Dallas - where Oswald is believed to have practiced for the shooting.]

The declared second shot - if you believe the Warren Commission official Report - was at an oblique angle (the famous magic bullet shot). It allegedly went through JFK’s back exited at his throat and went on to hit Governor Connally. The third shot - and many have suggested that there may have been more - was the killing shot where JFK’s head apparent is pushed back (leading to many suggestions that there was a second gunman positioned forward of the presidential cavalcade).

Here’s my bottom line from experience of using the weapon system. The Carcano is a poor gun, and the optical sight found upon it (as presented as evidence) was even worse - the sort of cheap thing with a moving reticule that was once used on air-rifles (I had something similar on my BSA Airsporter when I was a kid). The gun is up to the task, however - just. And, the shots with it are possible within the given time frame. I have made them again and again. Other reports notwithstanding, I believe any competent rifleman would have had a good chance of connecting at least once.”


If Yardley had tried the test taking 10 seconds, perhaps he may have found that a competent rifleman would have had even an easier time in getting those results.

[Jack Nessan]

Sorry Martin but these shooters from a CBS NEWS special who were not familiar with the Italian Carcano, were replicating Oswald's shots in a much shorter timespan than the now commonly accepted 8 seconds and were all trying for about a five and a half seconds, all the while doing the shooting with a non slowing down target and exposed to the elements and one rifleman achieved 3 hits, better than Oswald. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

The stabilized Zapruder Film showing the Limo slowdown at the time of the headshot.

Btw we know that the 3 shots (which the vast majority of Dealey Plaza earwitnesses heard) were fired from just above Norman on the 5th floor of the Depository and that makes your claim that "it most likely didn't happen the way the WC said it did." absolute self serving nonsense! But I guess finding a hardcore CT who accepts the undeniable facts in this case is like finding a month of Sundays!

JohnM

It must have been a different shooter who only fired the two shots from above BR Williams or Harold Norman, or the 50 or so eyewitnesses who stated there was only two shots, which makes sense to the fact that it defies being duplicated as described by JBC. Two shots explains the assassination, with three shots it is easier to believe there was a conspiracy.

[Martin Weidmann]

Hathcock appeared to have had trouble duplicating the shooting. Perhaps he used a 5-6 second time limit that many have believed in since the book Six Seconds in Dallas. But another good shooter, Michael Yardley, using his best timing estimates, did not find it that difficult as mentioned in his magazine. Yardley clearly implied the Carcano was by no means a top-of-the-line gun, but it was sufficient in his 7-8 seconds testing. The following quote is from Yardley’s magazine.

“Regular readers of this magazine may remember that some years back, I was also in Dallas on the Kennedy trail. On that trip, I proved that the shots could be made with the 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano rifle allegedly used by Oswald and fitted with a cheap ‘tin-whistle’ 4 power telescopic sight.

I made them repeatedly (half a dozen times) in the required 7-8 second time frame firing from the correct height, at the correct ranges at a vehicle moving at the correct speed using an exact replica of the Oswald rifle and scope and identical ammunition. On the first run, I hit the head target as a crossing shot at about 45 yards (which apparently Oswald missed), I also connected on the next two shots at 60 plus 90 plus yards respectively. [We did the shooting on a specially built range at the levy in Dallas - where Oswald is believed to have practiced for the shooting.]

The declared second shot - if you believe the Warren Commission official Report - was at an oblique angle (the famous magic bullet shot). It allegedly went through JFK’s back exited at his throat and went on to hit Governor Connally. The third shot - and many have suggested that there may have been more - was the killing shot where JFK’s head apparent is pushed back (leading to many suggestions that there was a second gunman positioned forward of the presidential cavalcade).

Here’s my bottom line from experience of using the weapon system. The Carcano is a poor gun, and the optical sight found upon it (as presented as evidence) was even worse - the sort of cheap thing with a moving reticule that was once used on air-rifles (I had something similar on my BSA Airsporter when I was a kid). The gun is up to the task, however - just. And, the shots with it are possible within the given time frame. I have made them again and again. Other reports notwithstanding, I believe any competent rifleman would have had a good chance of connecting at least once.”

If Yardley had tried the test taking 10 seconds, perhaps he may have found that a competent rifleman would have had even an easier time in getting those results.

Hathcock appeared to have had trouble duplicating the shooting. Perhaps he used a 5-6 second time limit that many have believed in since the book Six Seconds in Dallas.

Perhaps?

But another good shooter, Michael Yardley, using his best timing estimates, did not find it that difficult as mentioned in his magazine.

Estimates?

Yardley clearly implied the Carcano was by no means a top-of-the-line gun, but it was sufficient in his 7-8 seconds testing.

So he is going with his own estimate to determine what the time-frame for the three shots was?

I made them repeatedly (half a dozen times) in the required 7-8 second time frame

Oswald is supposed to have made the shots, using a just re-assembled Carcano, in one go. No trials, no test firing and no repeated attempts.....

On the first run, I hit the head target as a crossing shot at about 45 yards (which apparently Oswald missed), I also connected on the next two shots at 60 plus 90 plus yards respectively.

So, Yardley couldn't replicate what Oswald is supposed to have done in one go?

[We did the shooting on a specially built range at the levy in Dallas - where Oswald is believed to have practiced for the shooting.]

Where is the evidence that Oswald practiced for the shooting? And how would he have been able to practice if the rifle is supposed to have been stored in Ruth Paine's garage from late September to a day before the assassination?

The gun is up to the task, however - just. And, the shots with it are possible within the given time frame. I have made them again and again.

What "given time frame"? The one he estimated?

Other reports notwithstanding, I believe any competent rifleman would have had a good chance of connecting at least once.”

What he seems to believe isn't really of any significance if he leaves out of the equation that the shooter only had a couple of seconds using a re-assembled rifle which allegedly had been stored in a garage, where it was moved around several times.

If Yardley had tried the test taking 10 seconds, perhaps he may have found that a competent rifleman would have had even an easier time in getting those results.

Only 10 seconds? Why not 15?... Oh wait, the problem the WC had (which caused the SBT) is that, according to them, the shooter only had enough time to fire 3 shots. There may well have been more shots, but the WC did not want to explore that possibility.

[John Iacoletti]

Sorry Martin but these shooters from a CBS NEWS special who were not familiar with the Italian Carcano, were replicating Oswald's shots in a much shorter timespan than the now commonly accepted 8 seconds and were all trying for about a five and a half seconds, all the while doing the shooting with a non slowing down target and exposed to the elements and one rifleman achieved 3 hits, better than Oswald. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

“Oswald’s shots”. LOL.

[Brian Roselle]

I can’t tell exactly why Yardley chose to spend his time on running his tests with a 7-8 second duration and using 3 shots. I didn’t see where he commented on how much effect of assembling the rifle would have. I’m not sure if it has been universally agreed to as to what sights would have been used. He just stated his overall opinion from his experiences.

If you have significantly better data than Yardley used for his combination of time, shots, and shooters, i.e. there was (between ~2 and 6 seconds) or (more than 7-8, or even 10 seconds) in combination with (less than 3 shots) or (more than 3 shots) in combination with (more than one shooter), I absolutely encourage you to continue to build on your research and verify your results with as much multiple independent pieces of physical evidence as possible.