A time to receive and give (CE399)

[Dan O'meara]

Another thing to note about Andrew's model is Connally's head is far closer to the side of the limo than JFK's
In reality JFK (in any photo I've seen of the motorcade) is jammed into the corner of his seat with his right arm resting on the edge of the limo, while Connally is sat further away from the edge of the limo:



If Connally is positioned to replicate the image above in Andrew's model it would bring his right armpit nicely into line with a bullet fired from the SN and exiting JFK's throat.

[Andrew Mason]

Another thing to note about Andrew's model is Connally's head is far closer to the side of the limo than JFK's.

That is because I am basing their positions at the time, according to the evidence, first shot occurred (z190-200), not how they were positioned 20 minutes earlier.  The zfilm shows how they were positioned at that time:

JBC is turned to the right.  Since the seat back prevents him just turning if he is leaning against it, he had to lean forward a bit and then turn his shoulders pivoting on his right shoulder.  This appears to have moved his midline slightly to the right of centre of the seat.

If Connally is positioned to replicate the image above in Andrew's model it would bring his right armpit nicely into line with a bullet fired from the SN and exiting JFK's throat.

Only if JBC was sitting on the left edge of his seat over the drive shaft so that his midline was 12-13 inches left of JFK's midline.

[Dan O'meara]

That is because I am basing their positions at the time, according to the evidence, first shot occurred (z190-200), not how they were positioned 20 minutes earlier.  The zfilm shows how they were positioned at that time:

JBC is turned to the right.  Since the seat back prevents him just turning if he is leaning against it, he had to lean forward a bit and then turn his shoulders pivoting on his right shoulder.  This appears to have moved his midline slightly to the right of centre of the seat. Only if JBC was sitting on the left edge of his seat over the drive shaft so that his midline was 12-13 inches left of JFK's midline.

I can only post actual photographic evidence of the relative sitting positions of JFK and Connally.
The ludicrous sitting positions you have in your model are based on nothing but your futile attempt to bolster your truly bizarre theory. They have no basis in reality and have zero evidentiery support.

Only if JBC was sitting...12-13 inches left of JFK's midline.

A bit like the photo posted above 

[Andrew Mason]

I can only post actual photographic evidence of the relative sitting positions of JFK and Connally.
The ludicrous sitting positions you have in your model are based on nothing but your futile attempt to bolster your truly bizarre theory. They have no basis in reality and have zero evidentiery support.

I am puzzled that you think a photo taken 20 minutes before the first shot is a more accurate portrayal of their relative positions than a photo taken just before:


or at the time of the first shot:


I know that you think TE Moore, Betzner, Phil Willis and Linda Willis as to the time of the first shot were wrong; and that the witnesses who said the head shot was the last shot were wrong.  That's fine. But their evidence is consistent and it is real and capable of being correct.  I disagree that this evidence carries no weight.  Based on that evidence a reasonable conclusion can be reached that the first shot was just before z202 and the above photos show the relative positions of the two men at that time. At that time there is not 13 inches lateral distance between the midlines of the two men. 

Only if JBC was sitting...12-13 inches left of JFK's midline.

A bit like the photo posted above 

That photo was taken from a film made by Dave Powers in the QM. He is in the middle of the car so naturally JBC and JFK would both be seen even if JBC was directly in front of JFK.

[Andrew Mason]

I can only post actual photographic evidence of the relative sitting positions of JFK and Connally.
The ludicrous sitting positions you have in your model are based on nothing but your futile attempt to bolster your truly bizarre theory. They have no basis in reality and have zero evidentiary support.

The relative seating positions can be readily determined from a 3D model.  The trajectory from the SN is what is critical. This is my rather primitive but accurate 3D model that I did in Sketchup using a scale map of Dealey Plaza:




The trajectory is very similar to that which the WC considered when they made their 3D model of Dealey Plaza and placed the limousine at the point where they considered the evidence showed that the first shot occurred (a position that I suggest was correct):

[Martin Weidmann]

The relative seating positions can be readily determined from a 3D model.  The trajectory from the SN is what is critical. This is my rather primitive but accurate 3D model that I did in Sketchup using a scale map of Dealey Plaza:




The trajectory is very similar to that which the WC considered when they made their 3D model of Dealey Plaza and placed the limousine at the point where they considered the evidence showed that the first shot occurred (a position that I suggest was correct):

Since you ignored my last questions, I fully expect you to do the same with this one, but, despite the fact that IMO it has very little to do with CE399, I'm going to ask it anyway.

The trajectory from the SN is what is critical.

What makes you so sure that the shots came from the so-called SN at the TSBD?

[Andrew Mason]

Since you ignored my last questions, I fully expect you to do the same with this one, but, despite the fact that IMO it has very little to do with CE399, I'm going to ask it anyway.

The trajectory from the SN is what is critical.

What makes you so sure that the shots came from the so-called SN at the TSBD?

Not sure what questions I missed?  If I missed responding just send me a reminder and I will respond.

First of all, the trajectory has everything to do with CE399. The path through JFK's neck into JBC's thigh, butt-first, explains the condition of CE399 (as well as the first shot hitting JFK and the second hitting only JBC, the 1.......2...3 shot pattern, Tague's evidence, Greer, Hickey, Powers, Gayle Newman etc).

As far as the evidence that the shots came from the SN there are several witnesses whose evidence puts the shots originating there: Robert Jackson, Mrs. Cabell, and Amos Euins saw the rifle in the window during or immediately after the shots. Arnold Rowland saw a man with a rifle 15 minutes before the shots. The three men below on the 5th floor heard 3 loud shots from above them and Harold Norman heard the bolt action operated 3 times and heard 3 shells hit the floor.

Furthermore, the rifle found on the 6th floor had fired CE399. There were boxes in the SN placed in an unusual way consistent with use to support a rifle. Most witnesses said the shots all sounded similar and almost all witnesses said the shots sounded like they all came from the same location (although there was disagreement as to the location of the source).

If that's not enough, let me know and I will refer to more.