A time to receive and give (CE399)

[John Iacoletti]

Shaw did not treat the wound. Shaw never even claimed that he really examined the wound.
. . .
He *did* examine the wound in the OR

Make up your mind.  Did he examine the wound or not?

You don't know what "all the way in" means? My my!

In this case, it means that the bullet is embedded completely within the body. Had part of it been sticking out, Shaw (and/or someone else) would have said so at some point.

Funny....nobody ever said that they saw part of CE399 "sticking out" at some point.  Apparently this is only a requirement for Shaw's bullet.
 

He *did* examine the wound in the OR. He testified that when he was in TR2, he "observed no wounds on the Governor at this time. It wasn't until he was taken to the operating room that I properly examined him from the standpoint of the wound."

He's talking about the chest wound there.

[Mitch Todd]

Make up your mind.  Did he examine the wound or not?

As far as Shaw was concerned, he examined it, just superficially: "No; I didn't examine it that closely, except for its general location."

Funny....nobody ever said that they saw part of CE399 "sticking out" at some point.  Apparently this is only a requirement for Shaw's bullet.

It might be a surprise to some, but Connally was fully clothed when he was hit, and remained so until he was undressed in the flurry of activity in TR2. It could have come out at any time between Dealey Plaza and TR2, falling out of his pants at some point unnoticed because Connally, and not his pants, was the center of the activity flurry. There is also this provocative coincidence that I find interesting, but that's a story for another day.

He's talking about the chest wound there.

More than that:

Mr. SPECTER - What wounds, if any, did you observe on the Governor at that time?
Dr. SHAW - I observed no wounds on the Governor at this time. It wasn't until he was taken to the operating room that I properly examined him from the standpoint of the wound

Note the "s" in wounds, and that Specter's question isn't specific to any part of the body. Though the singular 'wound' is probably is a reference to the chest wound, which had been obscured by an 'occlusive seal'

[Andrew Mason]

The bit about Shaw assuming that a bullet was still in the thigh takes up all of one sentence in three paragraphs. The rest explains that Shaw wasn't in position to actually know if there was still a bullet in Connally's thigh, and that Shires and the x-rays tell a different story than what we got from Shaw's press conference.

I agree with the comment that "Shires and the x-rays tell a different story". I am not sure why Dr. Shaw's or even Dr. Gregory's comments are all that important. Dr. Shires had the closest and longest look at the thigh wound and x-rays.

In my view, the most significant issue is the location of the metal piece that remained in the thigh.

Dr. Gregory thought the metal piece appeared just below the skin but it is not clear what he based that on.

Dr. Shires had debrided the wound down to the region of the femur. This involved cleaning the wound and removing dead tissue. I am not sure why he would be removing dead tissue down as far as the femur unless the bullet had travelled that far.

Dr. Shires always maintained that the metal piece was embedded in the femur.  That metal piece shows up on both the anterior-posterior and lateral views at the same location relative to the femur (CE694, 695, 696).

If Dr. Shires was right, the object that made the thigh wound was a missile that had entered the thigh obliquely along the direction of the femur, travelled down to the femur where it left a small amount of lead, but did not remain in the thigh for some reason.  How long it was in the thigh cannot be determined from the evidence we have. There is evidence that CE399, whose condition fits the wound characteristics of the thigh wound, was found on Connally's stretcher.  It is a reasonable inference that CE399 caused the thigh wound.  That is about all we can say from that evidence.

[Martin Weidmann]

I agree with the comment that "Shires and the x-rays tell a different story". I am not sure why Dr. Shaw's or even Dr. Gregory's comments are all that important. Dr. Shires had the closest and longest look at the thigh wound and x-rays.

In my view, the most significant issue is the location of the metal piece that remained in the thigh.

Dr. Gregory thought the metal piece appeared just below the skin but it is not clear what he based that on.

Dr. Shires had debrided the wound down to the region of the femur. This involved cleaning the wound and removing dead tissue. I am not sure why he would be removing dead tissue down as far as the femur unless the bullet had travelled that far.

Dr. Shires always maintained that the metal piece was embedded in the femur.  That metal piece shows up on both the anterior-posterior and lateral views at the same location relative to the femur (CE694, 695, 696).

If Dr. Shires was right, the object that made the thigh wound was a missile that had entered the thigh obliquely along the direction of the femur, travelled down to the femur where it left a small amount of lead, but did not remain in the thigh for some reason.  How long it was in the thigh cannot be determined from the evidence we have. There is evidence that CE399, whose condition fits the wound characteristics of the thigh wound, was found on Connally's stretcher.  It is a reasonable inference that CE399 caused the thigh wound.  That is about all we can say from that evidence.

There is evidence that CE399, whose condition fits the wound characteristics of the thigh wound, was found on Connally's stretcher.

What would that evidence be?

Tomlinson couldn't even say on which stretcher he found the bullet nor is there - as far as I know - any evidence that confirms the stretcher used for Connally was indeed in the room when Tomlinson found the bullet.

[Andrew Mason]

Here is the whole thing:

The bullet going "obliquely along the direction of the femur" fits Mason's silly notion that the bullet from Kennedy's throat travel forward and passed-without-striking (get this) Connally's left torso and thus entered the left thigh from behind.

With Connally turned right as he is up to z200 and with his left leg out a bit to the side (natural) the right to left path through JFK's neck goes directly there - to the left thigh. 

Dr. Shires testified: (6 H 106):

"Mr. SPECTER. What size bullet would it take to create the punctate hole which
you described in the thigh?
Dr. SHIRES. This would depend entirely on the angle and the speed and
weight of the bullet. For example, a small missile on a tangent may create a
surprisingly large defect. A large bullet with fast or a relatively slow velocity
will create the same defect."

This is in contrast to the SBT scenario that the bullet entered the thigh after slapping off the right wrist.

Perhaps you could explain how "slapping" off the right wrist results in the bullet going through the french cuff causing a jagged long tear:

and going down and to the left rather than away from the point of contact.  Keep in mind that the damage to the right radius bone was to the right side of the bone not the inner left side.

[Dan O'meara]

I'm not sure if this article by Aguilar and Thompson has come up yet, but the only question it leaves unanswered is - when was CE399 introduced into the chain of custody?:

https://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/EvenMoreMagical.htm

[Mitch Todd]

I agree with the comment that "Shires and the x-rays tell a different story". I am not sure why Dr. Shaw's or even Dr. Gregory's comments are all that important. Dr. Shires had the closest and longest look at the thigh wound and x-rays.

In my view, the most significant issue is the location of the metal piece that remained in the thigh.

Dr. Gregory thought the metal piece appeared just below the skin but it is not clear what he based that on.

Oh, but yes it is clear. And we've been through all this before over at a.a.jfk, if you recall. It starts with a Dr Jack Reynolds, the Parkland radiologist responsible for examining the Connally's X-rays  in the late fall of 1963. Reynolds reported that the fragment was 8mm from the surface of the skin, not buried in the femur.  Gregory read those x-rays the same way. So did Shaw. In fact, every physician that I know of who've examined the thigh x-rays have stated that the thigh fragment is near the surface, except for Shires. The explanation given by the HSCA FPP was that Shires was confused by an artifact in one of the x-rays that overlies the image of the femur. Ultimately, you have Shires' opinion versus basically everyone else's.

Further, had a bullet hit Connally's thigh hard enough to drive a fragment deep into the bone, it would have caused noticeable damage to the bone. No such injury is evident in the x-rays, the of the operative records, the medical testimony, or anywhere else. There just isn't a case for a fragment driven into the bone.

Dr. Shires had debrided the wound down to the region of the femur. This involved cleaning the wound and removing dead tissue. I am not sure why he would be removing dead tissue down as far as the femur unless the bullet had travelled that far.

Which doesn't even begin to prove anything one way or the other about how far in the fragment was.

Dr. Shires always maintained that the metal piece was embedded in the femur.  That metal piece shows up on both the anterior-posterior and lateral views at the same location relative to the femur (CE694, 695, 696).

Whatever Shires claimed, and for how long, every other physician who's studied those x-rays state that the fragment is not in the femur, but a few mm from the surface. Also, if you notice, and you don't even have to look carefully, there are multiple little bright, fragment-like spots on those x-rays. So which is the real fragment and which are artifacts?