JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
Matt Grantham:
--- Quote from: Royell Storing on May 21, 2018, 05:23:00 PM ---
Just my guess, but I believe the Film that Brugioni examined on 11/23/63 was a Copy of the already Altered Original Z Film. The altering having been conducted at the Top Secret "Hawk Eye Works", and then quickly SS transported to NPIC for the Brugioni examination and his ensuing Bogus Briefing Board assignment. The Intel Heads wanted to see if the "Hawk Eye Works" Original Z Film alterations could get by the eye of their own Top Image Expert/Dino Brugioni. The briefing board assignment given to Brugioni was a ruse to orchestrate running that Altered Z Film Copy by him. Once the Altered Z Film Copy was unknowingly approved by Brugioni, "Hawk Eye Works" could then make further alterations to the Original Z Film if deemed necessary, and then produce Altered Copies. My guess is additional alteration(s) were then made to the Original Z Film. This explains the need for the 2nd Briefing Board Session due to there being contrasting still shots/photos between Brugioni's Briefing Board Session 1 and Briefing Board Session 2 the following night. This explains: (1) 2 different briefing board sessions on back-to-back nights, (2) entirely different personnel being used at both briefing board sessions, (3) Brugioni examining an 8MM Z Film, and (4) a 16MM Z Film being examined/worked on at Briefing Board Session 2
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Good point Also is there any evidence who from Life Magazine had control of the film and who from their organization caused the damage to it? My impression is the Secret Service was not going to allow anyone from a private company to get near it
Mike Orr:
Dino Brugioni said he thought they were dealing with the original Zapruder film . At frame 313 (the head shot ) the blowback from the frontal head shot went up very high and Brugioni said the blowback was of course on several of the next frames . The blowback would not have just been on one frame. When the 2 briefing boards were looked at by the powers that be , they apparently did not like what they saw so the next crew on Sunday evening were brought in to do their 4 briefing boards which are the briefing boards that are on display now at the Archives. I'm assuming we will never see the original Zapruder or Nix films. I don't know why , but I feel that there is a possibility of seeing those two original films in the future ! When they set up the number of years (50 or ever how many ) before JFK files would be seen , I always felt like they were thinking that most folks would be dead , who cared about the real story of what took place in Dallas . I remember Allen Dulles saying he thought there would only be a handful of "Academicians " who would actually delve into the Warren Commission's "26" volumes . Maybe Allen Dulles thought that the majority of people of the world were not smart enough or had the longevity of time to go through 26 volumes of the WC . When Cyril Wecht starts to talk about the 26 Volumes of the Warren Commission Report , his voice rises as he lets everyone know that there is no "INDEX" in the 26 volumes of The Warren Commission Report !!!!!!!!!
Royell Storing:
I believe Brugioni believed he was examining the Original Zapruder Film due to the SS delivering, hovering over, and departing with the Film in their possession. During the interview Brugioni did with Horne, he did Not sight anything technical as the basis for his believing he was examining the Original Z Film. The closest he came to anything of an even somewhat technical nature was his referring to how clear & bright the film he was working with was. With regard to the general impression that Brugioni expressed regarding the Z Film he was examining, we need to remember that Brugioni's heralded expertise was in the area of Spy Plane Photos taken from an extremely elevated position. In the areas of clarity/brightness, those spy plane photos bear no resemblance to a ground positioned color movie.
Mitch Todd:
--- Quote from: Mitch Todd on May 21, 2018, 05:42:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: Royell Storing on May 21, 2018, 04:59:33 AM --- You obviously have Not seen the complete Doug Horne interview of NPIC/CIA Image Expert Dino Brugioni. During that interview Brugioni describes the differences in the Z Film he Examined on 11/23/63 vs the Current Z Film.
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So, what are they?
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I'm not sure that anyone responded to my question, so, to the best of my knowledge....
In the Janney interview, Janney gives Dino a copy of Zapruder frame 313 to look at. Brugioni says that he remembered the "scatter" extending up higher in the film, 3-4 feet high. Janney then tells Brugioni that 313 is the only frame showing a cloud of blood and CSF. Brugioni responds by saying that he remembered that cloud on the film for a few frames, not just one. There is no point in either interview that I can find where he says that he thought the film was altered, only that the one frame he was shown wasn't how he remembered it.
That being said, there are a few things to consider:
If you do the photogrammetry, the streak that erupts from JFK's head in 313 and moves upwards at about 1:30 extends about 40" above the top of the head. Of course, that fits with Brugioni's description of the "scatter's" vertical extent.
For that matter, if they made enlargements to show what was going on in the limousine, then they likely cropped a lot of the background out. That would have resulted in an image where the "scatter" took up a much larger piece of real estate in the picture.
Janney was wrong when he told Brugioni that the cloud of matter only appears in frame 313. Any decent copy of the film shows it expanding and dissipating for a few frames after the shot. The cloud gets fainter with each frame, but that would be expected as the material exploding from the impact continuously spreads out over a larger and larger volume of space.
The 900lb gorilla in the room: Dino was 90 years old in 2011, and he was being asked about something that he worked on one night 50 years before. How well do you really expect him to remember it?
Gary Craig:
--- Quote from: Mitch Todd on May 22, 2018, 06:20:53 AM ---So, what are they?
I'm not sure that anyone responded to my question, so, to the best of my knowledge....
In the Janney interview, Janney gives Dino a copy of Zapruder frame 313 to look at. Brugioni says that he remembered the "scatter" extending up higher in the film, 3-4 feet high. Janney then tells Brugioni that 313 is the only frame showing a cloud of blood and CSF. Brugioni responds by saying that he remembered that cloud on the film for a few frames, not just one. There is no point in either interview that I can find where he says that he thought the film was altered, only that the one frame he was shown wasn't how he remembered it.
That being said, there are a few things to consider:
If you do the photogrammetry, the streak that erupts from JFK's head in 313 and moves upwards at about 1:30 extends about 40" above the top of the head. Of course, that fits with Brugioni's description of the "scatter's" vertical extent.
For that matter, if they made enlargements to show what was going on in the limousine, then they likely cropped a lot of the background out. That would have resulted in an image where the "scatter" took up a much larger piece of real estate in the picture.
Janney was wrong when he told Brugioni that the cloud of matter only appears in frame 313. Any decent copy of the film shows it expanding and dissipating for a few frames after the shot. The cloud gets fainter with each frame, but that would be expected as the material exploding from the impact continuously spreads out over a larger and larger volume of space.
The 900lb gorilla in the room: Dino was 90 years old in 2011, and he was being asked about something that he worked on one night 50 years before. How well do you really expect him to remember it?
--- End quote ---
"Dino was 90 years old in 2011, and he was being asked about something that he worked on one night 50 years before. How well do you really expect him to remember it?"
When you consider the subject matter and it's history, "How could he have forgot?"
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