JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Re: Motorcycle Policeman Hargis said Limo stopped !
Mike Orr:
Doug Horne & Dino Brugioni You Tube video 85 minutes long Dino starts at the 25:01 mark but the whole video is very good .--------
" The Zapruder Film Mystery Doug Horne interviews Legendary NPIC interpreter Dino Brugioni "
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pZIJRtSqHk
Jack Trojan:
--- Quote from: Steve Barber on May 20, 2018, 03:01:33 PM ---You are obviously unaware that there are INTACT prints of the film available. The Secret Service copy that Zapruder had made that day! Also, the original film-- including the splice-- still exists and was used to make the DVD of the original film released by MPI. Zavada didn't examine "a copy" he examined the original.
--- End quote ---
Intact prints of the original? Sure. I agree that they damaged the film so they had to add a splice to the copy. But all anyone has ever seen has been a copy. How would Zavada have known he was examining the original?
--- Quote ---FYI. The film was never "edited". It was damaged by an employee at Life magazine! I thought everyone already knew this, but apparently not you.
--- End quote ---
So a Life employee damaged the entire turn onto Elm? Right. Zapruder said he never took his finger off the camera trigger once he started filming, so what happened to that footage? BTW, there is another splice in the film that the Life employee must have created too. I thought everyone already knew this, but apparently not you.
Jack Trojan:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on May 20, 2018, 08:46:55 PM ---
Larry Sturdivan describes this in his book ?The JFK Myths?, Chapter Two, pages 28-29:
In each case, the bullets deformed extensively on impact with the skulls. As the bullets penetrated the contents, the jackets were torn open, exposing the lead cores. Some were torn completely in two. All left numerous small fragments along the bullet?s path through the gelatin inside the skull. High-speed movies were made of the shots that show the skulls to shatter in a manner very similar to the damage observed in the president?s skull. More fragments of skull were separated from the experiment skulls than from the President?s, as the tough scalp and connective tissue were missing.
--- End quote ---
JFK's head did not just shatter, it exploded. You can see the fireball in his head during the right temple blow-out. It created a plume of head material that Sturdivan does not describe. Otherwise, let's see the footage and we all can judge. I doubt he replicated JFK's exploding head. Did he replicate the same damage as Z323?
Didn't think so.
--- Quote ---Page 163 shows a series of high speed photograms showing a human skull shattering from the impact of a bullet fired from Oswald?s rifle. It shows the skull exploding even though the bullet was a non-explosive bullet.
--- End quote ---
Not saying I don't believe it, but show us the photos. I believe that a FMJ bullet can cause a blow-out along its trajectory, but not the way JFK's head exploded. No way.
--- Quote ---On a side note, I have seen video made by Dr. Lattimer of a human skull, stuffed with animal brains, sitting on a ladder, which explodes after being hit with a WCC/MC bullet.
--- End quote ---
Bully for you. Show us how it equates to the head shot.
--- Quote ---Question:
Are your conclusions that a WCC/MC could not cause the head to explode based on your readings by a ballistic expert? Are they based on your arm chair analysis, not on any real-world experiments but on how you image the effects of a non-explosive bullet would have?
--- End quote ---
Like you, I base my conclusions on the opinions of experts. But for me, it's the lack of a replication of the head shot explosion that makes me dubious. A head shot blow-out always follows the trajectory of the bullet. So what gives with the right temple blow out?
--- Quote ---If based on real world experiments, provide a quote of this expert.
--- End quote ---
You can't prove a negative. If I can't duplicate the head shot, then that doesn't mean that it was impossible. It is up to you to show that it was possible. By default it is ambiguous at best.
--- Quote ---If based on your armchair analysis state that it is based on your armchair analysis.
--- End quote ---
Huh?
--- Quote ---Silence on this question will be interpreted as your opinion is based on your armchair analysis.
--- End quote ---
What was the question?
--- Quote ---If the Zapruder film was faked, it could be faked again. All you have to do is remove the evidence of a massive wound to the side of the head and add a massive wound to the back of the head.
Question:
Can you, a self-described expert, do this?
--- End quote ---
Sure. Anyone can with today's digital editing tools.
--- Quote ---Can you show a link to a website where this has been done?
--- End quote ---
Probably, if I bothered to.
--- Quote ---If the Zapruder film was faked on 1963 to remove the massive rear head wound and replace it with a massive side head wound, then it should be possible to modify the fake Zapruder film.
If the Zapruder film could have been faked, this claim would have been substantiated by now.
--- End quote ---
Of course the Z film could have been faked. Why would it have been substantiated by now?
--- Quote ---The autopsy photographs passed a stereoscopic analysis, where two photographs of the head, taken from slightly different positions are viewed through a stereoscope.
--- End quote ---
I use stereoscopy for my work all the time to ortho-rectify aerial photographs. What you see with a stereoscope is called an anaglyph. Post the anaglyph of the autopsy photos and I'll analyze it for you. But what does that tell you? The fakery wasn't conducted in the dark room, the autopsy photos are of a JFK surrogate who didn't have a blow-out in the back of his head. Tippit perhaps? Whatever happened to his body anyway?
--- Quote ---Question:
Can you do the same thing?
Can you modify the ?altered? autopsy photographs to show a large rear wound and have these photographs pass a stereoscopic analysis?
Has this already been done? [/b]
--- End quote ---
Sure, easy peasy. If you start with 2 stereo pairs then anything you do to them will pass a stereoscopic analysis if you are the least bit competent in the darkroom. I'm confident that the FBI could find a film editor that could have done anything they wanted.
Steve Barber:
--- Quote from: Jack Trojan on May 21, 2018, 02:03:30 AM ---Intact prints of the original? Sure. I agree that they damaged the film so they had to add a splice to the copy. But all anyone has ever seen has been a copy. How would Zavada have known he was examining the original?
Why don't you contact him and ask him? You are a conspiracy nutter. You believe that everything that doesn't fit your way of thinking and believing is faked, altered, switched--whatever.
So a Life employee damaged the entire turn onto Elm? Right. Zapruder said he never took his finger off the camera trigger once he started filming, so what happened to that footage? BTW, there is another splice in the film that the Life employee must have created too. I thought everyone already knew this, but apparently not you.
--- End quote ---
Zapruder thought the president's car was was coming when he saw the motorcycles turning onto Elm street. He shut his camera off when he discovered that it wasn't right there it was farther back than he thought. I have known this since the first time I saw the Zapruder film that the reason he stopped filming was to save film. He had already shot an enormous amount of family footage of his grandchildren and so forth, plus he had shot film in his office. Are you aware of this???? Why do you people turn everything into something it isn't? You aren't searching for the "truth", you are searching for ways to perpetuate the thing!
If you have questions about Zavada, write him!
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Matt Grantham on May 20, 2018, 08:53:09 PM ---Tim Peter Janney first contacts Brugioni in February of 2009
Mr. Brugioni was contacted again in 2011, and the information that he had previously provided in 2009 was reconfirmed by Peter Janney in an MP3-recorded interview at Mr. Brugioni?s home on April 28, 2011; as well as in a four-hour-long HD video interview conducted by me on July 9, 2011
On another note for the general topic
http://assassinationofjfk.net/walter-cronkite-mentioned-the-jfk-limo-stopping/
--- End quote ---
Matt, I'm aware of the Janney and Horne interviews of Brugioni. I've watched the much edited YouTube video of Horne's interview of him. Nowhere in that video did Brugioni go on record saying that the Zapruder film he examined on 11/23/63 is not the same as the Zapruder film that currently resides in the National Archives or any of the three first generation copies. So my question remains unanswered.
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