Jim Leavelle Misremembers

[Dan O'meara]

Vicki mentioned the encounter with Lovelady and Shelly twice during her deposition. She was wrong in stating decades later that the encounter was inserted in the transcript of her testimony. She viewed one of the pages that has the encounter on it. The encounter with Lovelady and Shelly rules out an early descent by her. Even without that encounter, an early descent by her is highly improbable due to the fact that she never met Baker and Truly on her way down.  I mean, think about that. The story about Leavelle lying to her is not believable.

In his HSCA interview, Lovelady states he did not re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes.
This explains why he is filmed outside the building by both Hughes and Martin some 10 - 15 minutes after the assassination.
As such he could not have been at the bottom of the stairs when Adams and Styles descended and it would appear that Adams' statements to this effect have been falsified.
It is an unequivocal example of the corruption involved in the WC investigation.
Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative.

[Walt Cakebread]

In his HSCA interview, Lovelady states he did not re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes.
This explains why he is filmed outside the building by both Hughes and Martin some 10 - 15 minutes after the assassination.
As such he could not have been at the bottom of the stairs when Adams and Styles descended and it would appear that Adams' statements to this effect have been falsified.
It is an unequivocal example of the corruption involved in the WC investigation.
Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative.

"Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative."

Yes, you're sooo  right....   LBJ's "Special select committee" had an agenda  ..... And it wasn't to deliver the truth to the American people.  ( LBJ referred to the American people as " piss ants".....

[John Iacoletti]

Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative.

Absolutely. And I think they “pre-interviewed” every witness off the record.

[Dan O'meara]

Lovelady's admission that he didn't re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes is of immense interest (to me at least)
It demonstrates Vicki Adams' WC testimony was indeed altered, which she insisted was the case to Barry Ernest. The enormity of this, in regards to the integrity of the WC hearings, cannot be under-estimated.
It removes the only obstacle in respect of Adams' insistence that she and Styles rushed from the 4th floor window within seconds of the shooting, which has the knock-on effect of placing Dorothy Garner in the area of the starwell, in a perfect position to see Oswald supposedly rushing down the stairs for his rendezvous with Truly and Baker. But she doesn't see Oswald rushing by because it never happened and is just one piece of evidence supporting the view that Oswald never took the shots that day.
Also of interest (TMAL) are the lies Lovelady and Shelley tell in respect to their movements in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. In their same-day affidavits both men 'lie by omission'. Their statements give the unavoidable impression that immediately after the shooting they both re-entered the building through the main entrance. There is no mention of them walking to the west of the building, watching the activity around the rail road yard then entering the building through the little known and permanently unguarded west door.
In their WC testimonies both men tell exactly the same lie when they state they see Truly and Baker approaching the bottom of the TSBD steps at least 3 minutes after the shooting. It is a brazen and easily refuted lie. The WC knew damn well Truly and Baker were at the steps seconds after the last shot but never challenged Lovelady or Shelley on this blatant falsehood.
And then we find out that Lovelady didn't re-enter the building for 20 to 25 minutes.

Why were they lying about their movements and what were they trying to achieve with these lies.
If they were just innocent men going about their business why do they need to lie and what are they covering up.
My reading is that they are trying to cover their tracks regarding what they were doing at the west door.
In their same-day affidavits both men completely omit that they were at the west door at all. It is the immediate aftermath of the assassination of the president of the United states and they are being asked to give an account of their movements but they lie about it. They leave out an important aspect of their movements to give the impression they re-entered the building through the front entrance and not the west door.
The unbelievable lie both men tell the WC about how long it took Truly and Baker (3 minutes) to reach the steps, at first seems bizarre and pointless. The only effect it has is to delay how long it apparently took for them to reach the west door. It is my belief they were at the west door within one to two minutes after the assassination.
Lovelady's HSCA admission leaves us with this final picture - in the immediate aftermath of the shooting both men make their way to the west of the building. Shelley enters the building at this point but Lovelady does not, he is filmed outside the front of the building by Martin and Hughes approximately 10 to 15 minutes after the assassination.
I believe Shelley is back near the front entrance by the time Sawyer arrives @12:34 PM but what is Lovelady doing? Why do they go to the west door? Why do they split up? Why do they go to extraorinary lengths to cover this up?

[Walt Cakebread]

Lovelady's admission that he didn't re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes is of immense interest (to me at least)
It demonstrates Vicki Adams' WC testimony was indeed altered, which she insisted was the case to Barry Ernest. The enormity of this, in regards to the integrity of the WC hearings, cannot be under-estimated.
It removes the only obstacle in respect of Adams' insistence that she and Styles rushed from the 4th floor window within seconds of the shooting, which has the knock-on effect of placing Dorothy Garner in the area of the starwell, in a perfect position to see Oswald supposedly rushing down the stairs for his rendezvous with Truly and Baker. But she doesn't see Oswald rushing by because it never happened and is just one piece of evidence supporting the view that Oswald never took the shots that day.
Also of interest (TMAL) are the lies Lovelady and Shelley tell in respect to their movements in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. In their same-day affidavits both men 'lie by omission'. Their statements give the unavoidable impression that immediately after the shooting they both re-entered the building through the main entrance. There is no mention of them walking to the west of the building, watching the activity around the rail road yard then entering the building through the little known and permanently unguarded west door.
In their WC testimonies both men tell exactly the same lie when they state they see Truly and Baker approaching the bottom of the TSBD steps at least 3 minutes after the shooting. It is a brazen and easily refuted lie. The WC knew damn well Truly and Baker were at the steps seconds after the last shot but never challenged Lovelady or Shelley on this blatant falsehood.
And then we find out that Lovelady didn't re-enter the building for 20 to 25 minutes.

Why were they lying about their movements and what were they trying to achieve with these lies.
If they were just innocent men going about their business why do they need to lie and what are they covering up.
My reading is that they are trying to cover their tracks regarding what they were doing at the west door.
In their same-day affidavits both men completely omit that they were at the west door at all. It is the immediate aftermath of the assassination of the president of the United states and they are being asked to give an account of their movements but they lie about it. They leave out an important aspect of their movements to give the impression they re-entered the building through the front entrance and not the west door.
The unbelievable lie both men tell the WC about how long it took Truly and Baker (3 minutes) to reach the steps, at first seems bizarre and pointless. The only effect it has is to delay how long it apparently took for them to reach the west door. It is my belief they were at the west door within one to two minutes after the assassination.
Lovelady's HSCA admission leaves us with this final picture - in the immediate aftermath of the shooting both men make their way to the west of the building. Shelley enters the building at this point but Lovelady does not, he is filmed outside the front of the building by Martin and Hughes approximately 10 to 15 minutes after the assassination.
I believe Shelley is back near the front entrance by the time Sawyer arrives @12:34 PM but what is Lovelady doing? Why do they go to the west door? Why do they split up? Why do they go to extraorinary lengths to cover this up?

I believe Shelley and Lovelady were just a couple of dolts who lied for no good reason.....  as you said "pointless and bizarre"     

[Dan O'meara]

I believe Shelley and Lovelady were just a couple of dolts who lied for no good reason.....  as you said "pointless and bizarre"     

You couldn't be more wrong Walt.
The lies of Shelley and Lovelady are co-ordinated and take place over various statements.
In their same day affidavits both men conveniently omit that they went to the west of the building and entered through the west door.
Both men give the distinct impression they went back in through the front entrance immediately after the assassination.
In their WC testimonies both men tell the outrageous lie that Truly and Baker didn't reach the TSBD steps for at least 3 minutes. This delays their arrival at the west door 5 to 7 minutes after the assassination.
We now know that Lovelady didn't even enter the west door at that time and, as revealed in his HSCA interview and the films of Hughes/Martin, did not enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes after the assassination.
This leaves Shelley lying his arse off in his WC testimony. Note the use of the word "we":

Mr. Ball: What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY: We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. Ball: At the west end?
Mr. Shelley: Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.

"...we came in through our paking lot at the west end."
Here, Shelley is saying both he and Lovelady entered the building through the west door.

Mr. Shelley: I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. Ball: What was he doing?
Mr. Shelley: He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. Ball: Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. Shelley: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Who else did you see?
Mr. Shelley: That's all we saw immediately.

"That's all we saw immediately"
Here Shelley is still insisting he and Lovelady were together when they first entered the TSBD. More than that, Shelley is speaking for Lovelady as to what he saw when he entered the building. How does Shelley know that's all Lovelady saw as well, unless it's a co-ordinated lie.

Mr. Ball: Did you ever see Vickie Adams?
Mr. Shelley: I saw her that day but I don't remember where I saw her.
Mr. Ball: You don't remember whether you saw her when you came back?
Mr. Shelley: It was after we entered the building.

Once again, Shelley is peddling the lie they both entered the building together.

If you think this is just two morons lying for no good reason you are entitled to that opinion but I most certainly do not share it.

[Walt Cakebread]

You couldn't be more wrong Walt.
The lies of Shelley and Lovelady are co-ordinated and take place over various statements.
In their same day affidavits both men conveniently omit that they went to the west of the building and entered through the west door.
Both men give the distinct impression they went back in through the front entrance immediately after the assassination.
In their WC testimonies both men tell the outrageous lie that Truly and Baker didn't reach the TSBD steps for at least 3 minutes. This delays their arrival at the west door 5 to 7 minutes after the assassination.
We now know that Lovelady didn't even enter the west door at that time and, as revealed in his HSCA interview and the films of Hughes/Martin, did not enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes after the assassination.
This leaves Shelley lying his arse off in his WC testimony. Note the use of the word "we":

Mr. Ball: What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY: We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. Ball: At the west end?
Mr. Shelley: Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.

"...we came in through our paking lot at the west end."
Here, Shelley is saying both he and Lovelady entered the building through the west door.

Mr. Shelley: I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. Ball: What was he doing?
Mr. Shelley: He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. Ball: Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. Shelley: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Who else did you see?
Mr. Shelley: That's all we saw immediately.

"That's all we saw immediately"
Here Shelley is still insisting he and Lovelady were together when they first entered the TSBD. More than that, Shelley is speaking for Lovelady as to what he saw when he entered the building. How does Shelley know that's all Lovelady saw as well, unless it's a co-ordinated lie.

Mr. Ball: Did you ever see Vickie Adams?
Mr. Shelley: I saw her that day but I don't remember where I saw her.
Mr. Ball: You don't remember whether you saw her when you came back?
Mr. Shelley: It was after we entered the building.

Once again, Shelley is peddling the lie they both entered the building together.

If you think this is just two morons lying for no good reason you are entitled to that opinion but I most certainly do not share it.

Hi Dan, I'm not much interested in Shelley  And Lovelady's stories...... But, What do you think their reason was for lying right  "off the bat"?

The lies of Shelley and Lovelady are co-ordinated and take place over various statements.
In their same day affidavits both men conveniently omit that they went to the west of the building and entered through the west door.

Do you think they conspired in creating the lie before they wrote their affidavits?

[Michael Welch]

Hi Dan and Walt, Thank you both for your great input! Have either of you seen the pictures of I think August 23, 1963, where there is a guy who is not dressed in Cuban style dress--white shirt and dark pants; but has a brown suit on like Shelley in New Orleans. Sincerely yours, Michael