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Author Topic: Colors of Blue and Gold  (Read 53418 times)

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #384 on: June 25, 2023, 04:22:09 PM »
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But no country has as big a Nazi problem as Russia. No other country heavily relies on a group like the Wagner Group, named after Hitler's favorite composer and which makes extensive use of Nazi like imagery. And it's not just the Wagner Group. Leading spokesmen of Russia have proclaimed "One country, One President, One Victory", very similar to the Nazi slogan "One people, One Germany, One Leader".

The head of Wagner, or former head now, has a Jewish parent (not sure if it's his mom or dad). So if Ukraine can't have a Nazi problem because Zelensky has Jewish ancestry does that mean you can't call Wagner Nazis? 

Ukraine celebrates the Azov Battalion, which has a Nazi symbol as their logo. They're also collaborating with Russian neo-Nazis who have been raiding Russian border towns. And Ukraine has streets named after Nazi collaborators. Are there examples of Russia doing those things?

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #384 on: June 25, 2023, 04:22:09 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #385 on: June 26, 2023, 10:58:53 AM »
The head of Wagner, or former head now, has a Jewish parent (not sure if it's his mom or dad). So if Ukraine can't have a Nazi problem because Zelensky has Jewish ancestry does that mean you can't call Wagner Nazis? 

Ukraine celebrates the Azov Battalion, which has a Nazi symbol as their logo. They're also collaborating with Russian neo-Nazis who have been raiding Russian border towns. And Ukraine has streets named after Nazi collaborators. Are there examples of Russia doing those things?

It is downright scary to see the leftists celebrating an insurrection in Russia by an actual militant miltia group (as opposed to what happeed on Jan. 6).  Was it Biden's plan to destabilize Russia, and put the Russian nuclear arsenal in the hands of radicalized individuals?  Was that the objective?  That is apparently deemed a success by the modern leftists.  A very dangerous situation has been created by Biden's insane overreaction to this regional conflict.  Of course, even that didn't work out but CNN is still running baseless stories about Putin weakening.  Biden is caught completely by surprise by every event.   He and his clown show have miscalculated every step of this war beginning with believing that Russia would overrun Ukraine in a matter of weeks.  They offered to evacuate Zelensky.  What a clown show.  Ironically, they made exactly the opposite miscalculation in Afghanistan believing that the government could hold its own.  A complete foreign policy disaster.  This is what happens when folks are not elected or appointed based on competence but due solely to race, gender, and sexual orientation. 

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #386 on: June 28, 2023, 01:41:16 AM »

Lawmakers using Russia rebellion to push for more weapons to Ukraine

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lawmakers-using-russia-rebellion-to-push-for-more-weapons-to-ukraine/ar-AA1d7XCb?cvid=aef0364b15f949e991029855e6a959b5&ei=32

This article makes a couple of good points:


Points made by Senator McConnell

"I know there are some voices of opposition in the United States, but here's a way to look at it: the amount of money we've spent, sent to Ukraine is about .02 percent of our gross national product, and most of it is spent in this country," McConnell said. "So we have a country only asking for help that's doing the fighting."

My point: 2 percent of 1 percent of the U. S.'s GNP. Our spending on Ukraine is minimal compared to what it accomplishes.


Points made by Rep. Don Bacon:

Another Republican supporter of Ukraine aid, Rep. Don Bacon (R-Neb.), said on “Meet the Press” on Sunday that it’s been money well spent. The aid, which equates to 5 percent of the U.S. military budget, has helped take out half of Russia’s military, he said.

“Our actions have helped Ukraine prevail to the extent that they are right now. They’re still in a war, Russia controls 10 percent of their country, but without our aid, without our support, I think Ukraine would have fallen by now,” said Bacon, a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

My point: Well, I can't say it any better than Rep. Don Bacon. 5 % of our military budget takes out about half of Russia's military available to invade other countries. That sounds like pretty efficient spending. Imagine if there was a way to divert 5 % of our 1938 military budget, that would have cut Germany's army strength by 50 %. That would have been a hell of a good deal.

There is no exaggeration that Rep. Don Bacon is making. If anything, he is grossly understating things. Because of our support, the attack Russia can make with their army against other countries right now is much less than half they could make if they were not bogged down in Ukraine. And they would not still be bogged down if we had sent nothing. If we have hoarded our 5% of our military budget.

Our 5% spending has made Russia so weak, it can't even stop a two division (at best) thrust from capturing the Russia army headquarters for the invasion of Ukraine, from advancing 400 miles, three quarters of the way to Moscow, in two days. The German blitzkrieg's of 1939-1942 have nothing compared to this. But they never went against such weak defenses. Russia has already committed all it's got into Ukraine. There are no vast reserves that are going to swoop in from somewhere and overwhelm Ukraine. Ukraine valor, and our 5 %, has made this happen. Let it continue to happen.

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #386 on: June 28, 2023, 01:41:16 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #387 on: June 28, 2023, 01:56:33 AM »

The head of Wagner, or former head now, has a Jewish parent (not sure if it's his mom or dad). So if Ukraine can't have a Nazi problem because Zelensky has Jewish ancestry does that mean you can't call Wagner Nazis? 

Ukraine celebrates the Azov Battalion, which has a Nazi symbol as their logo. They're also collaborating with Russian neo-Nazis who have been raiding Russian border towns. And Ukraine has streets named after Nazi collaborators. Are there examples of Russia doing those things?

President Zelensky doesn't use Nazi imagery in his symbols. He does not call out for the elimination of another country or it's culture. He doesn't name his origination after Hitler's favorite composer. Prigozhin does all that.

And Prigozhin is a great hero to millions of Russians, who want to cheer him and take selfies with him. Or at least did so as recently as last Saturday. His chickening out will make them look for some other 'hero' who will promise the elimination of Ukrainian culture, Ukrainian language and of Ukraine itself. Something Russia has never accomplished in over 250 years of occupation.

The presence of millions who loved Prigozhin would make me think that Ukraine's cause is hopeless. Were it not for the evidence incompetence of the Russian state. Those Rostov guys who took selfies with Prinozhin. All support having millions of fellow Russians join the army and go crush Ukraine. But not one of them will go themselves, if there is any way to avoid it. Ukraine will prevail.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #388 on: June 28, 2023, 03:25:50 PM »
Lawmakers using Russia rebellion to push for more weapons to Ukraine

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lawmakers-using-russia-rebellion-to-push-for-more-weapons-to-ukraine/ar-AA1d7XCb?cvid=aef0364b15f949e991029855e6a959b5&ei=32

This article makes a couple of good points:


Points made by Senator McConnell

"I know there are some voices of opposition in the United States, but here's a way to look at it: the amount of money we've spent, sent to Ukraine is about .02 percent of our gross national product, and most of it is spent in this country," McConnell said. "So we have a country only asking for help that's doing the fighting."

My point: 2 percent of 1 percent of the U. S.'s GNP. Our spending on Ukraine is minimal compared to what it accomplishes.


Points made by Rep. Don Bacon:

Another Republican supporter of Ukraine aid, Rep. Don Bacon (R-Neb.), said on “Meet the Press” on Sunday that it’s been money well spent. The aid, which equates to 5 percent of the U.S. military budget, has helped take out half of Russia’s military, he said.

“Our actions have helped Ukraine prevail to the extent that they are right now. They’re still in a war, Russia controls 10 percent of their country, but without our aid, without our support, I think Ukraine would have fallen by now,” said Bacon, a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

My point: Well, I can't say it any better than Rep. Don Bacon. 5 % of our military budget takes out about half of Russia's military available to invade other countries. That sounds like pretty efficient spending. Imagine if there was a way to divert 5 % of our 1938 military budget, that would have cut Germany's army strength by 50 %. That would have been a hell of a good deal.

There is no exaggeration that Rep. Don Bacon is making. If anything, he is grossly understating things. Because of our support, the attack Russia can make with their army against other countries right now is much less than half they could make if they were not bogged down in Ukraine. And they would not still be bogged down if we had sent nothing. If we have hoarded our 5% of our military budget.

Our 5% spending has made Russia so weak, it can't even stop a two division (at best) thrust from capturing the Russia army headquarters for the invasion of Ukraine, from advancing 400 miles, three quarters of the way to Moscow, in two days. The German blitzkrieg's of 1939-1942 have nothing compared to this. But they never went against such weak defenses. Russia has already committed all it's got into Ukraine. There are no vast reserves that are going to swoop in from somewhere and overwhelm Ukraine. Ukraine valor, and our 5 %, has made this happen. Let it continue to happen.

Great return on our investment if you ignore the fact that thousands of Ukrainians have been killed in this senseless war.

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #388 on: June 28, 2023, 03:25:50 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #389 on: June 29, 2023, 02:33:19 PM »
"I want everybody to stop dying. They're dying. Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. And I'll have that done. I'll have that done in 24 hours. I'll have it done. You need the power of the presidency to do it."  President Donald Trump.

"The fact of the matter is that I believe we'll have the funding necessary to support Ukraine as long as it takes." Ukraine Joe.


What a contrast.  Trump wants to end the war.  Old Joe wants it to go on and on killing more and more Russians and Ukranians, destroying cities that the US will ultimately pay to rebuild, and costing billions to the US taxpayers potentially for years to come with no end in sight or even articulated plan to end it.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #390 on: June 29, 2023, 04:05:06 PM »
"I want everybody to stop dying. They're dying. Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. And I'll have that done. I'll have that done in 24 hours. I'll have it done. You need the power of the presidency to do it."  President Donald Trump.

"The fact of the matter is that I believe we'll have the funding necessary to support Ukraine as long as it takes." Ukraine Joe.


What a contrast.  Trump wants to end the war.  Old Joe wants it to go on and on killing more and more Russians and Ukranians, destroying cities that the US will ultimately pay to rebuild, and costing billions to the US taxpayers potentially for years to come with no end in sight or even articulated plan to end it.

Really bizarre how Trump sounds more reasonable than Biden who has decades of experience in foreign policy.

Under almost every other circumstance, the US supports ceasefires to end ongoing conflicts. The Russia-Ukraine war is the rare instance where we're discouraging attempts to reach a ceasefire because it's essentially a proxy-war. We're sacrificing Ukrainian blood to weaken Russia.

To what end? I don't know. I thought the Cold War ended in 1991. Apparently, the Cold War mentality persists...

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #390 on: June 29, 2023, 04:05:06 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Colors of Blue and Gold
« Reply #391 on: June 29, 2023, 04:15:58 PM »
Really bizarre how Trump sounds more reasonable than Biden who has decades of experience in foreign policy.

Under almost every other circumstance, the US supports ceasefires to end ongoing conflicts. The Russia-Ukraine war is the rare instance where we're discouraging attempts to reach a ceasefire because it's essentially a proxy-war. We're sacrificing Ukrainian blood to weaken Russia.

To what end? I don't know. I thought the Cold War ended in 1991. Apparently, the Cold War mentality persists...

That's exactly right.  There appears to be two incentives.  After pulling out of Afghanistan the military complex needed another endless war to fund the machine.  There are lots of military contractors getting filthy rich selling equipment to the US to send to Ukraine.  And the old Cold War hawks are finally getting a crack at Russia that they desired for decades weakening Russia at the expense of the people of Ukraine.  Underlying all of the above was the fake conspiracy theory that Trump and Putin were somehow collaborating to end democracy.  The politics of this war work to support that baseless political narrative.  That is why so many liberals who are historically opposed to war are the most ardent advocates of this war. They see Putin and Russia as a proxy for Trump.  So any means justifies the ends.  Even WWIII.