Truly's False Roll

[Bill Chapman]

"It makes no sense for Truly to fake a roll call when there was nothing to preclude him from having a roll call."

There is an incredibly simple point being made in this thread that you do not know how to deal with.
Truly lied to Fritz and his men about taking a roll call in which it was discovered Oswald had left the building.
You cannot provide any credible evidence that such a roll call took place.
That evidence does not exist.
It's enough that not one of the warehouse men who testified made any mention of anything like a roll call conducted by Truly.
But when we examine Truly's testimony it is clear that no such roll call took place:

"When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse."
"Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth."

Baker and Truly arrive back on the first floor around 10-15 minutes after the shooting to find "a regular madhouse".
I believe Tom Alyea takes footage of the two men stood talking with others shortly after they arrive on the first floor.
After an indeterminate amount of time Truly states that he notices some officers taking the names and addresses of some of his "boys". Frazier alludes to this in his WC testimony:

"...we had to give proper identification and after we passed him he told us to walk on then to the next man, and we, you know, put down proper information where he could be found if they wanted to see you and talk to you any more..."

Truly continues:

Mr. Truly: There were other officers in other parts of the building taking other employees, like office people's names. I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys.
So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there.
First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell--I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.

Mr. Belin: When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?

Mr. Truly: Lee Oswald. I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no.
So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not. He said, "What do you think"? And I got to thinking. He said, "Well, we better do it anyway." It was so quick after that.
So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy's name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.

Not only is it abundantly clear that no roll call took place, Truly makes the decision that Oswald is missing even though he "had another one or two out then" and he "didn't know whether they were all there or not".

He didn't know whether they were all there or not !!

For some reason known only to himself Truly rings up Aiken for Oswald's details. Somehow he has discerned that Oswald has left the building and is the only employee missing.
It is clear you want to jump ahead to make your argument that the invented roll call has no relevance but it is down to the evidence to determine the correct opinion and not, as you would have it, down to your opinion to determine the correct evidence.
So I'll keep it simple and to the point of this thread:

1) Do you agree there was no roll call taken by Truly?
If so:
2) Do you agree Truly invented this roll call?
If so:
3) Do you agree this invented roll call was used to single out Oswald as a person of interest to the police?

Keep to the subject of the thread rather than trying to reverse engineer your own entrenched position to try and deal with this issue.

If you believe the roll call happened, present the evidence.

Living History with Karen Westbrook Scranton

27:40-ish
'They took a roll call to make sure everyone was there' -- Scranton

[Bill Chapman]

Again, I'm not sure that there is enough available evidence to determine what form any "roll call" took.  As pointed out, there is evidence that it did occur.   However, the details are likely beyond confirming at this point.  What we are left with is to consider whether it makes any difference.  And it does not.   Whether there was a roll call or not is only relevant as to whether Oswald was present at the TSBD.  We know without any doubt whatsoever that Oswald was gone.  That conclusion is not dependent on Truly's roll call.   Lastly, I believe it is an outlandish and baseless claim to suggest that Truly was involved in a conspiracy into the assassination of JFK.  That is far out Bigfoot stuff.  But if you believe, as you have insisted here, that the evidence confirms that Truly lied and therefore must have been involved, why not take your evidence to the NY Times or some respected media outlet and seek their opinion?  I'm not sure why CTers who are convinced they have evidence that proves a conspiracy limit themselves to an Internet forum.  If I honestly believed that I had such evidence, I would present it to NY Times or DPD.

I suggest Fox News; they'll believe anything

[David Von Pein]

FYI / FWIW....

For those who think there was positively no roll call performed at the TSBD following the assassination, I offer up the two newspapers linked below. Both of these papers are dated Saturday, November 23, 1963. The words "roll call" can be found within the highlighted blue box that I have drawn in on each paper.

Also take note of the photograph of an alleged "Assassin's Bullet" that appears in the upper-right corner of the Fort Worth newspaper below. You'll no doubt note, as I did, that there's nothing at all in that photograph that comes even remotely close to resembling a "bullet":





More "Roll Call" talk here:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/06/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1142.html

[Richard Smith]

I would present it to NY Times or DPD.

ROFLMAO

Has your brain been deprived of oxygen lately?

Another typical Otto contribution.  No substance - check.  Personal insult - check.  In which we learn that if someone has what they believe to be evidence in the assassination of the US President, it is not reasonable for them to present that "evidence" to a national media source or law enforcement agency instead of spending their time on an Internet forum.  What does this reveal to us?  That CTers don't actually believe their own nonsense. 

[Richard Smith]

Brain damage - check.

The information has been known for 50+ years.

Do enlighten us as to what the DPD was supposed to do today?

Yes, what would the police do with credible evidence of the involvement of someone in a homicide?  And one of the most famous criminal cases in history.  I wonder!  No need to bother them with that because such evidence should be limited to an Internet forum.  LOL.  Obviously, you do not believe in your own CTer nonsense.  But prove me wrong and report to them that you have evidence that Truly lied about the roll call and that this is evidence he was involved in the conspiracy to assassinate the President.   Report back to us.

[Dan O'meara]

If you believe the roll call happened, present the evidence.

Living History with Karen Westbrook Scranton

27:40-ish
'They took a roll call to make sure everyone was there' -- Scranton

The roll call in question is the one Truly invented.
It supposedly took place on the first floor and involved all the warehouse men who constituted Truly's "boys".
It has nothing to do with any roll call of the office workers on the second floor.
Scranton makes it clear that she and her work colleagues were in the "bullpen type office" on the second floor.
If you are imagining a roll call of every single worker in the building that day was made to see who was missing, the result would have been that about one third of the employees had not made it back into the building and not just Oswald.
In no way does this constitute evidence that a roll call involving Truly's "boys" had taken place.
It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

[Dan O'meara]

FYI / FWIW....

For those who think there was positively no roll call performed at the TSBD following the assassination, I offer up the two newspapers linked below. Both of these papers are dated Saturday, November 23, 1963. The words "roll call" can be found within the highlighted blue box that I have drawn in on each paper.

Also take note of the photograph of an alleged "Assassin's Bullet" that appears in the upper-right corner of the Fort Worth newspaper below. You'll no doubt note, as I did, that there's nothing at all in that photograph that comes even remotely close to resembling a "bullet":





More "Roll Call" talk here:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/06/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1142.html

As difficult as it is to prove something that didn't happen I believe, in this case, it is possible.
The testimony of the man who supposedly conducted this roll call is unequivocal that no such roll call actually took place. Truly gives his thought processes leading up to his decision to call Mr Aiken and get Oswald's details to pass on to the authorities.

"There were other officers in other parts of the building taking other employees, like office people's names. I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys."
"I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no."
"I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no."

This is the sum total of the process Truly went through before he decided to put Oswald forward as the only employee missing. What makes this even more startling are the following comments:

"So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not."

I didn't know whether they were all there or not!

No roll call took place, there can be little doubt about that.
What possible justification can there be for singling out Oswald?
Truly reports saying to Campbell "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not."
However, according to an FBI report dated 11/24/63 Truly said more than this to Campbell:

"Inside he [Campbell] was told shortly thereafter by the warehouse superintendent, Mr. TRULY, that all the employees of the company had been rounded up and one employee, LEE HARVEY OSWALD, was missing."

Truly is unequivocal in his testimony - he saw some of his "boys" being interviewed by police officers and couldn't see Oswald there.
He asks Bill Shelley if he has seen Oswald who says he has not.
Even though he didn't know whether all his men were there or not he decides Oswald must be reported.

There is no justification and no rational reason why Truly would come to this decision.
He tells Campbell that he has rounded up all his men and Oswald is the only one missing.
He tells Lumpkin he has a boy missing and he is taken to Fritz where Biffle overhears Truly telling him about the roll call at which Oswald was discovered missing.

But there was no roll call. There was no rounding up of his "boys".