Are these two photos legit?

[Dan O'meara]

I repeat, none of these officers specifically say exactly where they saw the lunch remains. Your interpretations are only your opinions. And your conclusion is based on your opinions.

You're inability to deal with this issue has been recorded for all to see.
I am more than satisfied the point has been made that all eight officers place the lunch remains where the SN is.
You're in denial Charles.
Good luck with that. 

[Charles Collins]

You're inability to deal with this issue has been recorded for all to see.
I am more than satisfied the point has been made that all eight officers place the lunch remains where the SN is.
You're in denial Charles.
Good luck with that. 

Three more opinions that are clearly wrong. Have fun with your fantasies!

[Richard Smith]

Come on Dan, you think you can read the minds of the people testifying to the Warren Commission by applying your interpretation of their words. What you might want to consider is that these officers were involved with searching the entire building. A statement such as “It was right around where the boxes were, where the hulls were” when put in perspective with even just the sixth floor area could easily mean to include the area where the lunch remains were photographed. Your interpretation is just your opinion. It most definitely is not what he said.

Exactly.  The use of imprecise language by witnesses to recall events from their memory is then subject to the pedantic review of others with 60 years of hindsight seeking to confirm their subjective interpretations of those events.  What, for example, constitutes the "sniper's nest" is not necessary the same for everyone.  It could, for example, encompass the entirety of the 6th floor. 

[James Hackerott]

Was just watching some of Alyea's footage and noticed this moment.
It is taken before the "rifle" footage and shows Fritz and other officers congregating in the southeast corner. There is then a very short clip showing Fritz and an officer I can't make out crouched down in the SN where the shells lie on the floor. There is a very brief glimpse of Fritz's hand coming into view as he holds something small in his fingers (red circle). It's impossible to make out what it is but it does raise a few questions, like "what small thing could Fritz be picking up from the area where the shells are lying?"

Captain Fritz wore glasses. In a much clearer version of that scene neither detective is wearing glasses. I've believed those two were Sims and Boyd (not sure which is which). BTW, this scene is 5-10 minutes before the SN photos were taken between 13:15-13:20.

[Charles Collins]

Captain Fritz wore glasses. In a much clearer version of that scene neither detective is wearing glasses. I've believed those two were Sims and Boyd (not sure which is which). BTW, this scene is 5-10 minutes before the SN photos were taken between 13:15-13:20.

Thanks James, this illustrates that Mooney’s idea that Fritz was the first one to pick up the shells could have easily just been a mistaken assumption. Sims wore a hat similar to Fritz’s. And looking from a standing position towards a kneeling detective, it’s a good possibility that (just like Dan) Mooney could have mistaken his identity.

[Dan O'meara]

Exactly.  The use of imprecise language by witnesses to recall events from their memory is then subject to the pedantic review of others with 60 years of hindsight seeking to confirm their subjective interpretations of those events.  What, for example, constitutes the "sniper's nest" is not necessary the same for everyone.  It could, for example, encompass the entirety of the 6th floor.

Really Richard?
I've subjected the memory of the eight officers who place the lunch remains where the SN is (3 of them specifically placing the remains on top of the SN), to some kind of "pedantic review".
Well, I challenged Charles to analyse my interpretation of the officers statements so he could clarify where I was going wrong.
Instead of taking up that challenge he just slid away in a cloud of denial, hiding behind the same empty, toothless generalisations you specialise in (re: the post I'm responding to)

So I throw the gauntlet down to you to take on the challenge.
In Reply #98 I present my interpretations of the statements made by eight officers regarding the location of the lunch remains.
Highlight where I've subjected these statements to a "pedantic review" or STFU.

[Jack Nessan]

Really Richard?
I've subjected the memory of the eight officers who place the lunch remains where the SN is (3 of them specifically placing the remains on top of the SN), to some kind of "pedantic review".
Well, I challenged Charles to analyse my interpretation of the officers statements so he could clarify where I was going wrong.
Instead of taking up that challenge he just slid away in a cloud of denial, hiding behind the same empty, toothless generalisations you specialise in (re: the post I'm responding to)

So I throw the gauntlet down to you to take on the challenge.
In Reply #98 I present my interpretations of the statements made by eight officers regarding the location of the lunch remains.
Highlight where I've subjected these statements to a "pedantic review" or STFU.

There was more than one spot where chicken bones were located. Alyea suggests the media influenced the officers to have claimed to have seen them.

Montgomery and Shelley's explanation of seeing and having knowledge of multiple people having been eating chicken on the 6th floor that morning explains the two different locations of chicken bones as reported by the detectives and news people.



Mr. BALL. Now, was there some more chicken some place there also?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes--there would be some more chicken over here around where the hulls were found.


Bill Shelley noticed someone eating chicken up on the 6th floot way before the assassination. He thought it was from Givens. Givens denies it but no one ever sees Givens eat his lunch and he doesn't even know where he ate it.

Maybe this is not true.
Mr. BELIN. I want to backtrack a minute before we come to the shots. When did you eat lunch?
Mr. GIVENS. When did I eat lunch? I ate lunch after. Lets see, no; I ate lunch before I went up there, because I stood outside and ate my sandwich standing out there.


Mr. BALL - Now, did you find any chicken bones up there or see any?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, I went up later on that day; I believe after we had gotten back from City Hall with someone, I don't remember who it was, one of the officers and they got them.
Mr. BALL - They did what?
Mr. SHELLEY - They got the bones.
Mr. BALL - Where were they?
Mr. SHELLEY - They were on the third--yeah, it would be the third window from the southeast corner.
Mr. BALL - And were they in a sack?
Mr. SHELLEY - Laying on a sack.
Mr. BALL - Laying on a sack?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; with a coke bottle sitting in the window.
Mr. BALL - Did you see any other chicken bones anyplace around there?
Mr. SHELLEY - No, sir; that's all.
Mr. BALL - That's the only ones?
Mr. SHELLEY - That's all.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody eating fried chicken on that floor that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - At one time I think I said I did but Charles Givens was the guy that was eating and he was further on over toward the west side and he was eating a sandwich so he says.
Mr. BALL - Now you say that you thought that you had seen someone had eaten fried chicken that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - I thought I had; those colored boys are always eating chicken.
Mr. BALL - Do you think you did or do you know?
Mr. SHELLEY - I asked Charles Givens whether it was him that was eating and he said it was a sandwich.
Mr. BALL - Was that before you went down for lunch?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; it was pretty early in the morning, about 9:30.
Mr. BALL - Where was it?
Mr. SHELLEY - It was two-thirds across the building toward the west because I didn't put plywood over there and he didn't get too far from where we were actually working.

========================

Tom Alyea:
"..... these officers heard the report, that stemmed from WFAA-TV's incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the 6th floor. This officer or officers perhaps used this information to formulate their presence at the scene."

Alyea makes this statement for an entirely different reason, but it explains why Mooney would claim to have seen the chicken bones where he said he did. The thing he fails to see, or mention is the sack or pop bottle. From where he was standing while securing the snipers nest he most likely never seen the bones over by the other set of windows to the West.