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Author Topic: Last Second in Dallas  (Read 12284 times)

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2021, 11:42:17 PM »
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Whatever.
However, I just pointed out [in the video] that all this 'Xspurt' stuff didn't seem to impress Senator Russell or the President.
Also...if the single bullet theory is indeed a fact...why is it still called a 'theory'?
Further...C E 399 should be described as 'nearly pristine'... which it is.
So, no one but a fool buys that theory.

It's a theory that came to be after they had to consider the likelihood that one of the shots missed the motorcade.

Initially, the FBI concluded that none of the shots missed.

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2021, 11:42:17 PM »


Online Jerry Organ

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2021, 02:23:45 PM »
It's a theory that came to be after they had to consider the likelihood that one of the shots missed the motorcade.

The major factor was that the bullet, in transiting Kennedy's neck, was barely slowed down and so must have struck something to the front of the President. But no major damage was noted to the vehicle (the dent in the chrome was not thought caused by a bullet at near full-velocity). The SBT became the working theory but only to Connally's back, not the wrist and thigh. Then came the ballistics experts who said the wrist wasn't struck by a full-velocity bullet. So the Commission included the wrist and thigh in the SBT.

That's what follow the evidence means. The "theory" comes last, not first as do all the conspiracy theories.

Quote
Initially, the FBI concluded that none of the shots missed.

The two FBI agents at Bethesda who wrote that were going by the initial speculation they overheard, in which it was thought there was no transit of the neck (therefore the FBI assumed Connally alone was struck by a pristine bullet, which meant three bullets struck the two men). But the autopsy report (when finished over the weekend), which was not considered in the FBI report, concluded there had been neck transit.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 08:56:00 PM by Jerry Organ »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2021, 03:57:56 PM »
Whatever.
However, I just pointed out [in the video] that all this 'Xspurt' stuff didn't seem to impress Senator Russell or the President.
Also...if the single bullet theory is indeed a fact...why is it still called a 'theory'?
Further...C E 399 should be described as 'nearly pristine'... which it is.
So, no one but a fool buys that theory.

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2021, 03:57:56 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2021, 04:04:46 PM »
No first shooter has been ID'd in Dealey

Tools of the trade found in only one location.
 

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2021, 09:17:17 PM »
The major factor was that the bullet, in transiting Kennedy's neck, was barely slowed down and so must have struck something to the front of the President. But no major damage was noted to the vehicle (the dent in the chrome was not thought caused by a bullet at near full-velocity). The SBT became the working theory but only to Connally's back, not the wrist and thigh. Then came the ballistics experts who said the wrist wasn't struck by a full-velocity bullet. So the Commission included the wrist and thigh in the SBT.

That's what follow the evidence means. The "theory" comes last, not first as do all the conspiracy theories.

The Katzenbach memo is proof that there was no good faith effort by the government to rule out a conspiracy. Lawyers don't ask questions that they don't want to know the answer to and politically, the lone assassin narrative is better than trying to explain a conspiracy to the public (whether it was an inside job or done by foreign enemies it would be a political minefield).

The FBI put together a memo shortly after the assassination concluding that none of the shots missed the limo. The injuries suffered by James Teague forced the Warren Commission to consider a theory of how just two bullets caused all the wounds to Kennedy and Connally...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 09:18:50 PM by Jon Banks »

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2021, 09:17:17 PM »


Online Jerry Organ

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2021, 01:29:42 AM »
The Katzenbach memo is proof that there was no good faith effort by the government to rule out a conspiracy. Lawyers don't ask questions that they don't want to know the answer to and politically, the lone assassin narrative is better than trying to explain a conspiracy to the public (whether it was an inside job or done by foreign enemies it would be a political minefield).

The memo didn't mean that Katzenbach believed there was a conspiracy that had to be covered up. It meant that many--going by the first-day evidence and no evidence of other suspects appearing over the weekend--genuinely believed by late Sunday that Oswald was the lone assassin.

In fact, if you dig down into the memo, Katzenbach is concerned about the Dallas police and Texas rightwingers exploiting the assassination to wage a McCarthyist witch-hunt.

    "Speculation about Oswald’s motivation ought to be cut off, and
     we should have some basis for rebutting thought that this was a
     Communist conspiracy or (as the Iron Curtain press is saying) a
     right–wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists. Unfortunately
     the facts on Oswald seem about too pat — too obvious (Marxist,
     Cuba, Russian wife, etc.). The Dallas police have put out statements
     on the Communist conspiracy theory, and it was they who were in
     charge when he was shot and thus silenced."

It also shows that Katzenbach thought the rumors were getting out of hand in the wake of Oswald's slaying by Jack Ruby. And that Katzernbach thought "the facts on Oswald seem about too pat".

These were concerns Katzenbach didn't want swept under a rug but presented in a public report ("a statement that all the facts will be made public property in an orderly and responsible way should be made now."), with the hope that the FBI report might suffice. If not:

    "The only other step would be the appointment of a Presidential Commission
     of unimpeachable personnel to review and examine the evidence and
     announce its conclusions."

Katzenbach didn't want the showboating or potential Mccarthyism of a Congressional hearing:

    "We need something to head off public speculation
     or Congressional hearings of the wrong sort."

Quote
The FBI put together a memo shortly after the assassination concluding that none of the shots missed the limo.

As already mentioned, the agents at the autopsy reported initial speculation at Bethesda which was later rejected by the pathologists and every subsequent medical review board. By Sunday, the autopsy report had concluded there had been transit of the neck.

Then the Warren Commission followed the evidence that led them to the ingenious Single Bullet Theory (or Fact). Critics are jealous because they have nothing as clever (yet Occam's razoresque) and scientifically-sound that "solves" the assassination. Their lamebrain theories and goofball trajectory gyrations will always come up short.

Quote
The injuries suffered by James Teague forced the Warren Commission to consider a theory of how just two bullets caused all the wounds to Kennedy and Connally...

No, it was more what happened to the near full-velocity bullet that left Kennedy's throat if it didn't damage the limousine. What was forward and slightly to the left of Kennedy that wasn't a part of the vehicle? The Governor.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2021, 02:37:27 AM »
The memo didn't mean that Katzenbach believed there was a conspiracy that had to be covered up. It meant that many--going by the first-day evidence and no evidence of other suspects appearing over the weekend--genuinely believed by late Sunday that Oswald was the lone assassin.

In fact, if you dig down into the memo, Katzenbach is concerned about the Dallas police and Texas rightwingers exploiting the assassination to wage a McCarthyist witch-hunt.

    "Speculation about Oswald’s motivation ought to be cut off, and
     we should have some basis for rebutting thought that this was a
     Communist conspiracy or (as the Iron Curtain press is saying) a
     right–wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists. Unfortunately
     the facts on Oswald seem about too pat — too obvious (Marxist,
     Cuba, Russian wife, etc.). The Dallas police have put out statements
     on the Communist conspiracy theory, and it was they who were in
     charge when he was shot and thus silenced."

It also shows that Katzenbach thought the rumors were getting out of hand in the wake of Oswald's slaying by Jack Ruby. And that Katzernbach thought "the facts on Oswald seem about too pat".

These were concerns Katzenbach didn't want swept under a rug but presented in a public report ("a statement that all the facts will be made public property in an orderly and responsible way should be made now."), with the hope that the FBI report might suffice. If not:

    "The only other step would be the appointment of a Presidential Commission
     of unimpeachable personnel to review and examine the evidence and
     announce its conclusions."

Katzenbach didn't want the showboating or potential Mccarthyism of a Congressional hearing:

    "We need something to head off public speculation
     or Congressional hearings of the wrong sort."

As already mentioned, the agents at the autopsy reported initial speculation at Bethesda which was later rejected by the pathologists and every subsequent medical review board. By Sunday, the autopsy report had concluded there had been transit of the neck.

Then the Warren Commission followed the evidence that led them to the ingenious Single Bullet Theory (or Fact). Critics are jealous because they have nothing as clever (yet Occam's razoresque) and scientifically-sound that "solves" the assassination. Their lamebrain theories and goofball trajectory gyrations will always come up short.

No, it was more what happened to the near full-velocity bullet that left Kennedy's throat if it didn't damage the limousine. What was forward and slightly to the left of Kennedy that wasn't a part of the vehicle? The Governor.

The memo didn't mean that Katzenbach believed there was a conspiracy that had to be covered up. It meant that many--going by the first-day evidence and no evidence of other suspects appearing over the weekend--genuinely believed by late Sunday that Oswald was the lone assassin.

How in the world do you know what Katzenback believed or intented when he wrote the memo? Did he tell you?

And since when does any serious investigation conclude there was no conspiracy to be covered up within two days after the murder? How is that not a jump to a conclusion?

And since when is a a belief that somebody was a lone assassin enough to write such a memo, when there is no apparent reason for writing such a memo in the first place?

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2021, 02:37:27 AM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Last Second in Dallas
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2021, 03:11:05 AM »
The memo didn't mean that Katzenbach believed there was a conspiracy that had to be covered up. It meant that many--going by the first-day evidence and no evidence of other suspects appearing over the weekend--genuinely believed by late Sunday that Oswald was the lone assassin.

You can't really be that gullible. No one could've possibly known for certain within 48 hours of the assassination that no one else was involved.

The Katzenbach memo and all other actions taken by the Johnson administration were due to politics and national security concerns, not a good faith effort to find all the facts about what led up to JFKs murder.

The memo basically admits that Oswald's background is suspicious and invites conspiracy speculation. Duh.

Assuming that Katzenbach, Johnson, and other insiders knew about Oswald's trip to Mexico City weeks before the assassination, I don't buy that he was totally convinced that Oswald acted alone so soon after 11/22/63.

Even if Katzenbach assumed that all the shots were fired by Oswald only, it couldn't be ruled out within 48 hours that a guy who lived in the USSR and had recently traveled to the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico had no accomplices.

Katzenbach, Johnson, and others were concerned about the politics, not the truth. This is confirmed by Johnson admitting years later that he didn't believe Oswald acted alone:

"Johnson expressed his belief that the assassination in Dallas had been part of a conspiracy. “I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.” Johnson said that when he had taken office he found that “we had been operating a damned Murder Inc. in the Caribbean.” A year or so before Kennedy’s death a CIA-backed assassination team had been picked up in Havana. Johnson speculated that Dallas had been a retaliation for this thwarted attempt, although he couldn’t prove it".

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/08/lbj-oswald-wasnt-alone/309486/


RFK, Gerald Ford, and Nixon all expressed similar sentiments in private. Johnson was the only one to say it publicly.

Then the Warren Commission followed the evidence that led them to the ingenious Single Bullet Theory (or Fact). Critics are jealous because they have nothing as clever (yet Occam's razoresque) and scientifically-sound that "solves" the assassination. Their lamebrain theories and goofball trajectory gyrations will always come up short.

There has never been a bullet in history that did what CE399 did and came out looking as clean.

Joe Rogan says it best: