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Author Topic: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth  (Read 13012 times)

Offline W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #88 on: November 06, 2021, 08:20:39 PM »
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There literally are hundreds of researchers who have proposed theories about "who" killed Kennedy. If you want to go after the low hanging fruit of researchers who say "there were dozens of snipers in Dealey Plaza" or that "Oswald had a doppelgänger since childhood", be my guest.


I am not aware of anyone but Armstrong who has said (specifically) what individual committed the crime, where they were shooting from, what the physical evidence for that shooting position is and so on. Any such theory, to be viable, would have to explain how they framed Oswald. I am speaking about published authors not people who bloviate on forums. Now, my memory is not what it used to be, but I don't recall any book with those specifics that is believable.


Whatever you think of Morley's opinions, he's a solid journalist who sticks to the verifiable facts in the case.

No he's not anymore and that is the tragedy. You can follow my debates with Morley at these links:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/06/response-to-morley.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/07/veciana-and-cia.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/another-slobbering-love-affair.html

Just a few examples. Morley said that Veciana was a CIA agent (that is a person who was employed by the agency). He was not. He was a registed asset at one point but never used. Morley accepted Veciana's claim that he was the brains behind the Pedro Pan exodus. There is no evidence for this assertion beyond Veciana's word. Morley said Veciana "definately" had a "relationship with David Phillips. Again, only verified by Veciana.

So, Morley is now acting as an activist for a position rather than a journalist.

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #88 on: November 06, 2021, 08:20:39 PM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #89 on: November 06, 2021, 08:26:55 PM »
I am not aware of anyone but Armstrong who has said (specifically) what individual committed the crime, where they were shooting from, what the physical evidence for that shooting position is and so on. Any such theory, to be viable, would have to explain how they framed Oswald. I am speaking about published authors not people who bloviate on forums. Now, my memory is not what it used to be, but I don't recall any book with those specifics that is believable.

No he's not anymore and that is the tragedy. You can follow my debates with Morley at these links:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/06/response-to-morley.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/07/veciana-and-cia.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/another-slobbering-love-affair.html

Just a few examples. Morley said that Veciana was a CIA agent (that is a person who was employed by the agency). He was not. He was a registed asset at one point but never used. Morley accepted Veciana's claim that he was the brains behind the Pedro Pan exodus. There is no evidence for this assertion beyond Veciana's word. Morley said Veciana "definately" had a "relationship with David Phillips. Again, only verified by Veciana.

So, Morley is now acting as an activist for a position rather than a journalist.
Anyone who has followed Morley's writings on this event can see that he is no longer simply asking questions; he's making explicit claims now. He's a "the CIA killed JFK" believer and not a "Did the CIA kill JFK" questioner. Questions are fine; outright claims are different.

Although my guess is that he'll walk back some of those statements. He's done this quite often.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2021, 08:32:35 PM »
Jon: Tracy quotes Morley as saying that "Oswald was a patsy for their crime." Their is the CIA, presumably Angleton and counter intelligence. The crime is the assassination of JFK.

I'm not sure if that's the exact quote. Do you have a link to it?

As to speculation: There's a difference between people speculating about who shot JFK or whether FDR knew about Pearl Harbor or other historic events - fine we ask the types of questions about controversial events all of the time - and a professional journalist known for his work on the assassination publicly making these claims. Morley is often cited or quoted by the media on this matter. He's not a nobody here.

Exactly. Which is why some so desperately want to discredit him.

But Morley has that platform because he IS a credible JFK assassination researcher.

Another JFK assassination researcher often cited in mainstream media publications is Phil Shenon. He seems to imply that Castro knew of Oswald's plans. What are your thoughts on Shenon?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 08:41:54 PM by Jon Banks »

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2021, 08:32:35 PM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2021, 08:38:31 PM »
You can follow my debates with Morley at these links:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/06/response-to-morley.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/07/veciana-and-cia.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/another-slobbering-love-affair.html

Show us the exact quotes from Morley, not your interpretations of things he said.

We agree that Morley is an "activist" in the sense that he has spent at least the last decade or so attempting to get JFK assassination files declassified. 

He's not unbiased on the matter but he's also not a "conspiracy theorist".

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2021, 09:04:57 PM »
Remember that after the assassination that Angleton essentially turned the counter intelligence division upside down due to his insistence that Nosenko was a fake agent sent by the KGB to cover up their supposed connections to Oswald. And any possible role in the assassination. Nosenko was brutally treated on Angleton's orders in an attempt to get him to confess.

If Angleton was behind the assassination - and thus Oswald was innocent of the murder and any KGB connection meaningless to the event - why do all of that? It serves no purpose. Why turn CI into a operational mess over something he knew wasn't true? I.e., that the KGB had a role in the assassination. They didn't. Angleton essentially destroyed his career due to the mistreatment of Nosenko. Yes, the other stuff - the mail openings - contributed to it. It doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2021, 09:04:57 PM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2021, 09:16:11 PM »
Remember that after the assassination that Angleton essentially turned the counter intelligence division upside down due to his insistence that Nosenko was a fake agent sent by the KGB to cover up their supposed connections to Oswald. And any possible role in the assassination. Nosenko was brutally treated on Angleton's orders in an attempt to get him to confess.

If Angleton was behind the assassination - and thus Oswald was innocent of the murder and any KGB connection meaningless to the event - why do all of that? It serves no purpose. Why turn CI into a operational mess over something he knew wasn't true? I.e., that the KGB had a role in the assassination. They didn't. Angleton essentially destroyed his career due to the mistreatment of Nosenko. Yes, the other stuff - the mail openings - contributed to it. It doesn't make sense to me.


Who knows? James Angleton's paranoia (post the Philby incident) is well documented.

If he had any involvement with JFK's assassination (even indirectly), it was in his interest to point the finger at the Soviets.

Any luck finding that Morley quote that you referenced earlier?


Somewhat off-topic but still on the topic of conspiracies, the Trump-Russia collusion theory is a recent conspiracy that many people on the Left in the US have speculated about. I too initially thought the theory had legs but over time, the more I learned about the Trump-Russia investigations, the less I believed it to be probable that there was any sort of agreement or conspiracy between Trump and Putin.

The Kennedy assassination for me has been the opposite. The more I've learned, the more I've leaned towards the conclusion that there probably was a conspiracy.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2021, 09:58:21 PM »


'Match Tough' first in a series
concept/art/design by billchapman/hunter of trolls
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Since my recent posts here are off-topic, I've decided to use my 'Bill Chapman Unpacked' space.
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https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2521.msg83963.html#msg83963

 ;D
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 01:05:40 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2021, 09:58:21 PM »


Offline W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The JFK Files: Rhetoric vs. Truth
« Reply #95 on: November 06, 2021, 10:12:54 PM »
Show us the exact quotes from Morley, not your interpretations of things he said.


The linked articles have the exact quotes.