The lapel flip -- what did i miss?

[Tom Graves]

If one just goes by the zfilm, you could conclude that JBC was hit in the back at the same time that JFK received his neck wound.  (Ok, you would have to fudge the trajectory a bit because JFK's hands appear to be in front of his neck exit wound. Also a right to left path through JFK does not easily fit a strike on JBC's right side - but let's just leave that issue aside).

But if one looks at the rest of the evidence, one can see that there is not only a reasonable explanation for what JBC is doing but also several bodies of consistent, independent pieces of evidence that are inconsistent with JBC being hit in the back there and that there had been only one shot to that point.

So you cannot answer that question unless you look at all the evidence. When you do, you discover a huge amount of evidence that does not fit the SBT.  But, not surprisingly, it still fits all three shots being fired by a single shooter.

How many bad guys do you figure were involved, altogether, in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the shooting, the getting-away, and the all-important (and evidently ongoing!!!) cover up?

Just a few, or oodles and gobs?

[Tom Graves]

If one just goes by the zfilm, you could conclude that JBC was hit in the back at the same time that JFK received his neck wound.  (Ok, you would have to fudge the trajectory a bit because JFK's hands appear to be in front of his neck exit wound. Also a right to left path through JFK does not easily fit a strike on JBC's right side - but let's just leave that issue aside).

But if one looks at the rest of the evidence, one can see that there is not only a reasonable explanation for what JBC is doing but also several bodies of consistent, independent pieces of evidence that are inconsistent with JBC being hit in the back there and that there had been only one shot to that point.

So you cannot answer that question unless you look at all the evidence. When you do, you discover a huge amount of evidence that does not fit the SBT.  But, not surprisingly, it still fits all three shots being fired by a single shooter.

Perhaps you missed these questions:

1) Why does Connally's right shoulder drop between frames 224 and 225?

2) Why does his hat start moving between frames 224 and 225?

3) Why does his tie flap out between frames 224 and 225?

4) Why does he quickly rotate his head to his left between frames 224 and 225?

5) Why does he open his mouth between frames 224 and 225?

6) Why are both JFK's and JBC's mouths open in Z-225? Are they simultaneously saying, "Boy, that sure sounded like a cherry bomb to me!"?


EDIT: The most important question of all:

Why do you have a psychological need to believe the JFKA was a conspiracy?

[Mitch Todd]

I ask again,

If the lapel flip is not an optical illusion created by reflected light, since when can a lapel move up and then back down in just 56 milliseconds? A piece of clothing cannot move up and down that rapidly on this planet.

If a bullet tore through Connally in Z223-224, what, pray tell, slammed his right shoulder downward in Z238-245?

If a bullet tore through Connally in Z223-224, why did Connally himself, the man who actually experienced the event, insist he was not hit before Z229 after carefully studying a high-quality print of the Zapruder film under high magnification? Why did both of Connally's surgeons agree with Connally on this point?

If a bullet tore through JFK in Z223-224, what, pray tell, caused him to start to bring his left hand up toward his throat in Z224, keeping in mind that even a reflex reaction would take at least 4 frames, and why is Jackie already staring at JFK in Z221?

Doesn't Jackie's reaction in Z221 clearly prove that JFK had already begun to visibly react to a wound before that frame?

Isn't it obvious that JFK's Z224 reaction is a continuation of the reaction that he starts at around Z200, when his right hand freezes in mid-wave and he suddenly starts to turn his head to the left?

You see, one huge problem for WC apologists is that you are chained down by the single-bullet theory and the three-shot scenario. To anyone with two functioning eyes, it is obvious that JFK and Connally were hit by separate bullets, as the Knott Laboratory SBT trajectory analysis confirmed. It is equally obvious that JFK began to react to a wound long before Z223. But you can't accept these obvious facts because they would mean admitting that at least four shots were fired.

If the lapel flip is not an optical illusion created by reflected light, since when can a lapel move up and then back down in just 56 milliseconds? A piece of clothing cannot move up and down that rapidly on this planet.

The lapel flip is not a reflection. That notion was a just desperate whimsy by David Wimp.


If a bullet [I presume "didn't" was supposed to be in here somewhere] tore through Connally in Z223-224, what, pray tell, slammed his right shoulder downward in Z238-245?

His muscles.


If a bullet tore through Connally in Z223-224, why did Connally himself, the man who actually experienced the event, insist he was not hit before Z229 after carefully studying a high-quality print of the Zapruder film under high magnification? Why did both of Connally's surgeons agree with Connally on this point?

You demand that we believe that Connally's memories are photographic-perfect to a tiny fraction of a second. That is too much to demand. Especially after Connally had been subject to severe blood loss and very heavy sedation. Also, given that there is some lag between a physical stimulus and the conscious recognition of the physical stimulus's effects, we should expect that the actual impact occurred some number of frames before Connally's mind experienced the shot. As for the surgeons, on what basis would they really know? Their expertise is in treating injuries, not in the postures assumed by victims immediately upon injury.


If a bullet tore through JFK in Z223-224, what, pray tell, caused him to start to bring his left hand up toward his throat in Z224, keeping in mind that even a reflex reaction would take at least 4 frames, and why is Jackie already staring at JFK in Z221?

JFK's left hand actually drops between 224 and 225. It from 225 to 232 it moves upwards. His left elbow still down at his side in 224, where it'd been since the limo first appeared in the film. And how you can determine what Jackie is staring at, or even if she is actually staring at anything at all, is a mystery.


Doesn't Jackie's reaction in Z221 clearly prove that JFK had already begun to visibly react to a wound before that frame?

221 is the first frame where Jackie reappears from behind the sign. How can it alone show Jackie reacting to anything? Or is it that you're just in the habit of picking out random frames, declaring that some person in that frame is "reacting," then presuming that they are "reacting" to a gun shot?


Isn't it obvious that JFK's Z224 reaction is a continuation of the reaction that he starts at around Z200, when his right hand freezes in mid-wave and he suddenly starts to turn his head to the left?

This is just begging the question. And the answer is no, for reasons I have already laid out. And JFK's hand in frame 200 is doing the same thing it was doing in frame 180. Just one last lazy wave to the waning crowd as the limousine prepares to peel off Elm to the looming freeway.

And, once again, the [Don] Knotts Lab video shows that they didn't even bother to put the rifle in the right half of the window, or figure out where JFK's back wound actually was.

[John Mytton]

I ask again,

If the lapel flip is not an optical illusion created by reflected light, since when can a lapel move up and then back down in just 56 milliseconds? A piece of clothing cannot move up and down that rapidly on this planet.

If a bullet tore through Connally in Z223-224, what, pray tell, slammed his right shoulder downward in Z238-245?

If a bullet tore through Connally in Z223-224, why did Connally himself, the man who actually experienced the event, insist he was not hit before Z229 after carefully studying a high-quality print of the Zapruder film under high magnification? Why did both of Connally's surgeons agree with Connally on this point?

If a bullet tore through JFK in Z223-224, what, pray tell, caused him to start to bring his left hand up toward his throat in Z224, keeping in mind that even a reflex reaction would take at least 4 frames, and why is Jackie already staring at JFK in Z221?

Doesn't Jackie's reaction in Z221 clearly prove that JFK had already begun to visibly react to a wound before that frame?

Isn't it obvious that JFK's Z224 reaction is a continuation of the reaction that he starts at around Z200, when his right hand freezes in mid-wave and he suddenly starts to turn his head to the left?

You see, one huge problem for WC apologists is that you are chained down by the single-bullet theory and the three-shot scenario. To anyone with two functioning eyes, it is obvious that JFK and Connally were hit by separate bullets, as the Knott Laboratory SBT trajectory analysis confirmed. It is equally obvious that JFK began to react to a wound long before Z223. But you can't accept these obvious facts because they would mean admitting that at least four shots were fired.

Hahahaha! Reflected light which is black and at the same time obscures Connally's white shirt? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, that's some far out "optical illusion", Dude!



Kennedy is clearly lifting his elbows as soon as he is struck and emerging from behind the sign.



BTW, for someone who believes that the Zapruder film is heavily altered, you sure like to use the same film down to individual frames to establish your warped worldview, pathetic!

JohnM

[Andrew Mason]

How many bad guys do you figure were involved, altogether, in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the shooting, the getting-away, and the all-important (and evidently ongoing!!!) cover up?

Just a few, or oodles and gobs?

What part of: “ But, not surprisingly, it still fits all three shots being fired by a single shooter.” makes you think I am suggesting there was more than one bad guy?

Sometimes it helps to read the whole post.

[Tom Graves]

What part of: “But, not surprisingly, it still fits all three shots being fired by a single shooter” makes you think I am suggesting there was more than one bad guy?

If you think there was only one bad guy and it was someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald, do you think he intentionally framed Oswald for the assassination, or do you think that there was just a bunch of coincidences that worked against the poor little Marxist / former Marine sharpshooter?   

Regardless, did the solitary bad guy ask Oswald to bring his neato short-rifle and some ammo to work that day, and then ask him that morning if he could borrow it during lunchtime to play with?

[John Mytton]

If you think there was only one bad guy and it was someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald, do you think he intentionally framed Oswald for the assassination, or do you think that there was just a bunch of coincidences that worked against the poor little Marxist / former Marine sharpshooter?   

Regardless, did the solitary bad guy ask Oswald to bring his neato short-rifle and some ammo to work that day, and then ask him that morning if he could borrow it during lunchtime to play with?

You're barking up the wrong tree Tom, Mason is a dyed in the wool LNer, and IIRC his only deviation from the official story is that he believes that Oswald took three shots and hit his target twice and the missed shot hit Connally.

The following extract is from the Warren Commission Report.

"Although it is not necessary to any essential findings of the Commission to determine just which shot hit Governor Connally, there is very persuasive evidence from the experts to indicate that the same bullet which pierced the President's throat also caused Governor Connally's wounds. However, Governor Connally's testimony and certain other factors have given rise to some difference of opinion as to this probability but there is no question in the mind of any member of the Commission that all the shots which caused the President's and Governor Connally's wounds were fired from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository."
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-1

JohnM

[Royell Storing]

Hahahaha! Reflected light which is black and at the same time obscures Connally's white shirt? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, that's some far out "optical illusion", Dude!



Kennedy is clearly lifting his elbows as soon as he is struck and emerging from behind the sign.



BTW, for someone who believes that the Zapruder film is heavily altered, you sure like to use the same film down to individual frames to establish your warped worldview, pathetic!

JohnM

     This alleged "lapel flip" could be tied to Dan Rather's description of the Zapruder Film that he viewed only days after 11/22/63. One of the inconsistent things that Rather described during his Nationally Broadcast Description of the Zapruder Film was seeing BLOOD on the White Shirt of Gov Connally. This "Lapel Flip" could be hiding the Blood that Rather described but is Not visible on the Current Zapruder Film. Blood on Connally's white shirt possibly revealing a shot from in front/side of the JFK Limo.