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Author Topic: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?  (Read 39979 times)

Offline Royell Storing

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2025, 08:42:44 PM »
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   Michael - You know you are on the right track when they slander you. They have nowhere else to go.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2025, 08:43:31 PM by Royell Storing »

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2025, 08:42:44 PM »


Offline Tom Graves

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2025, 10:21:18 PM »
Michael - You know you are on the right track when they slander you. They have nowhere else to go.

Storing,

You both sound as though you could be . . . aw, never mind.

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2025, 11:15:33 PM »
The guy who says JFK's wounds were altered to hide a frontal shot, that Abraham Zapruder was one of the conspirators and that Amos Euins was lying but Gordon Arnold was telling the truth comes in and defends Mr. Griffith against the "crackpot" suggestion.

You cannot make this up.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2025, 01:06:53 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2025, 11:15:33 PM »


Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #107 on: June 03, 2025, 11:57:35 PM »
What makes the Knott Laboratory SBT trajectory analysis all the more impressive and important is that Knott Laboratory has been an industry leader in forensic engineering and accident reconstruction animation services for over 40 years. The company's experts include structural and mechanical engineers, fire and explosion investigators, visualization experts, accident reconstructionists, and digital media forensics experts. That's why John Orr, a former Justice Department attorney, hired them to analyze the SBT.

To reconstruct the shooting scene with modern technology, Knott's experts conducted a high-definition laser scan of Dealey Plaza to generate a point cloud of up to 2 million points per second, to accurately measure point-to-point anywhere in the scene. Knott Laboratory also obtained historic photographic evidence from the plaza, the limousine, and the Zapruder film. Here's what happened after that:

No previous SBT analysis even came close to this level of locational data volume and accuracy and analytical sophistication. WC apologists can do nothing but offer lame excuses for refusing to accept this scientific finding. If Knott Lab had determined that JFK and Connally were SBT aligned, lone-gunman theorists would be hailing the trajectory analysis as definitive and conclusive, but since it found the opposite, they dismiss it, proving that not even hard science can sway them from their emotional devotion to the lone-assassin scenario.
Since Michael decided to bring this over from the other thread, I guess I have to reply here, too. To repeat the high-level version:

The Knott Lab effort was a second-rate amateurish hogwash. If you watch their promo video you'll find that they have the shot coming from the wrong side of the SN window, and have the bullet impacting JFK at his centerline. The bigger problem is the lack of rigor. A proper trajectory study would acknowledge the uncertainties in the location of the wounds, the differences between the exact size and shape of the models to the real life bodies, any deflection of the bullet after impact, etc. This would result in a series of trajectory cones, not a straight line. Of the various attempts to create a trajectory analysis for the shooting, the best is still the Failure Analysis one from the early 90's. I wouldn't give you $0.02 for the Knott Labs version. And on to some specifics:

MW: Knott Laboratory has been an industry leader in forensic engineering and accident reconstruction animation services for over 40 years. The company's experts include structural and mechanical engineers, fire and explosion investigators, visualization experts, accident reconstructionists, and digital media forensics experts.

In the early 1990's , Failure Analysis Associates was one of the largest and most respected forensic engineering firms in the US. That's one reason why they were chosen by the ABA to provide forensic  services and expert testimony for the ABA Oswald mock trial. Yet, despite a pedigree that rivals' Knott Labs', you don't mention the FaAA trajectory work.


MW: Knott Laboratory also obtained historic photographic evidence from the plaza, the limousine, and the Zapruder film.

So did Dale Myers. From their own account, Knott Labs used the same techniques that Myers used to synchronize and locates their models with the Zapruder film


To reconstruct the shooting scene with modern technology, Knott's experts conducted a high-definition laser scan of Dealey Plaza to generate a point cloud of up to 2 million points per second, to accurately measure point-to-point anywhere in the scene

This is a case where having more raw data doesn't make the result better. Dealey Plaza could be much better modelled using far less information than what we see in the KL video. On the KL video, during the flythrough, you'll notice how quickly the KL model becomes incoherent as the camera POV deviates from the scanner's location. I assume they didn't go to the trouble to create a proper model of the Plaza just to same time and effort.


No previous SBT analysis even came close to this level of locational data volume and accuracy and analytical sophistication

Their analysis isn't all that sophisticated.  As I've already noted, the put the rifle in the wrong window, and have the bullet hit JFK in the centerline. Rifle and wound placement isn't a minor detail in this case. Anything but! Still, KL completely flubbed it.





Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #108 on: June 04, 2025, 12:05:02 AM »
What makes the Knott Laboratory SBT trajectory analysis all the more impressive and important is that Knott Laboratory has been an industry leader in forensic engineering and accident reconstruction animation services for over 40 years. The company's experts include structural and mechanical engineers, fire and explosion investigators, visualization experts, accident reconstructionists, and digital media forensics experts. That's why John Orr, a former Justice Department attorney, hired them to analyze the SBT.

To reconstruct the shooting scene with modern technology, Knott's experts conducted a high-definition laser scan of Dealey Plaza to generate a point cloud of up to 2 million points per second, to accurately measure point-to-point anywhere in the scene. Knott Laboratory also obtained historic photographic evidence from the plaza, the limousine, and the Zapruder film. Here's what happened after that:

No previous SBT analysis even came close to this level of locational data volume and accuracy and analytical sophistication. WC apologists can do nothing but offer lame excuses for refusing to accept this scientific finding. If Knott Lab had determined that JFK and Connally were SBT aligned, lone-gunman theorists would be hailing the trajectory analysis as definitive and conclusive, but since it found the opposite, they dismiss it, proving that not even hard science can sway them from their emotional devotion to the lone-assassin scenario.

If nothing else, you have managed to convince yourself that they worked some kind of magic. What you haven’t done is explain the obvious. Would you like another try at explaining it? 

Apparently at Knotts Lab you just need a theory, no matter how bizarre, and not think things through. There is no accounting for the bullet that passed through JFK. The green line still strikes JBC in the back. You would have thought someone there would have viewed that as a problem. To add insult to injury the same group has a trajectory on the JBC wound that originates in outer space.

It could not be any more obvious the flaw in their thinking. At one point the JFK’s and JBC’s wounds actually align in their graphic. I honestly cannot believe these people put this tripe on the internet, or the bigger question as to why you feel the need to promote it.

In the absence of any coherent answer to the main question, maybe you can explain how they proved anything at all.

 

 

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #108 on: June 04, 2025, 12:05:02 AM »


Offline Royell Storing

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #109 on: June 04, 2025, 01:22:22 AM »

  So when do they start overturning the 1,000's of cases that courts have permitted the Knott Lab Forensic SCIENCE bullet tracing evidence to be admitted? That's Not happening. You guys are doing what you do best. Jabbering.  Knott Lab uses SCIENCE.

Offline Tom Graves

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #110 on: June 04, 2025, 01:26:04 AM »
So when do they start overturning the 1,000's of cases that courts have permitted the Knott Lab Forensic SCIENCE bullet tracing evidence to be admitted? That's Not happening. You guys are doing what you do best. Jabbering. Knott Lab uses SCIENCE.

And, apparently, graphics from video games.

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2025, 01:34:22 AM »
  So when do they start overturning the 1,000's of cases that courts have permitted the Knott Lab Forensic SCIENCE bullet tracing evidence to be admitted? That's Not happening. You guys are doing what you do best. Jabbering.  Knott Lab uses SCIENCE.
A quick Google search for "Knott Lab Bullet Tracing" yields nothing other than their work for the JFK thing. So exactly how many other "bullet tracing" cases have they cracked, with science or without?

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Re: The lapel flip -- what did i miss?
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2025, 01:34:22 AM »