The lapel flip -- what did i miss?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

While you are thinking about it it you might ask yourself how does the jacket bulge out but not the shirt or the tie?  The tie does not move at all. 
Here is the shirt:


Not that much blood there and there would be a less hitting the jacket.  Lattimer proved that the bullet itself cannot cause the jacket to bulge.

In my giff of Lattimer's 1994 bulge & flip the tie appears to be short, shorter than the lapel even.
The tie comes out (in 1994), & the end of the tie lifts up to about where we might possibly see it over the top of the side of the jfklimo in the Zapruder 1963 frames/giffs (if the tie came out in 1963).
Anyhow, the tie might have come out in 1963, but it is unlikely that the coming out would be vizible in Zapruder.
I will have a closer look at the 1963 frames to see if there is any hint of tie coming out.

I forget whether Lattimer said that in 1994 the jacket did not bulge nor the lapel flip unless the slug was tumbling during outshoot.
Or whether Lattimer was referring to the lapel flip only.
In any case we can safely assume that the shirt bulges as per the jacket. We can see a bit of shirt bulge in 1994, but i dont think we can see shirt bulge in 1963 (shirt might have bulged, but not vizible in Zapruder)(too blurry etc).
And anyhow why would the movement of the shirt be important?
Its strange that the 1994 lapel on Connally's left side duznt appear to bulge or flip at all.

Lattimer's outshoot in 1994 is much closer to centerline than the outshoot in 1963, & higher. The 1994 outshoot was just a couple of inches from the tie.
In fact the 1994 slug took a big chunk out of the edge of the lapel (as can be seen).

[Andrew Mason]

Connally's jacket in front had more loose material than the tucked-in shirt and tie-with-clip. But nice try.

It's a later picture, but it looks like the Guv wore his belt high.

Nice try Jerry.  But since the tie is clipped to the shirt it should move with the shirt. Neither shirt nor tie budges at all.   The jacket moves independently of the underlying shirt - just like the jacket opened a bit from z222-223.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Bump. Below is one of my old postings re the lapel flip.

Here are my latest estimates (done today) off Lattimer's 18 frames (actually 18 photos)(it was not a film)(camera took 30 pix/sec)(Lattimer's test dunn in 1994).
Its difficult to see what is what in Lattimer's 1994 frames (pix) – its partly guesswork.
The flap on the jacket on the 1994 dummy was much longer than the 1963 jacket, so i have divided the 1994 flap into the lower flap & the upper flap.
In the 1963 Zapruder frames the 1963 flap is in effect the upper flap in the 1994 frames.
I assumed that the 1963 slug hit Connally at Z220.0.  This accords with the max flip at Lattimer 07 (1994) happening at the same time as the flip in Z224 (1963).
We don’t see any debris cloud in the 1963 Zapruder frames – the exit outshoot on the 1963 jacket is hidden below the level of the 1963 limo door.
Frame … Time s … Bulge % … Lower/Upper [Flap Flip %] … Debris Cloud % … Zapruder Frame … Connally 1963 Flap.
…. 00 …. 0.0000 …. 000 ……….. 010 …. 000 ……………………………….. 075 ……………………. Z220.0 ….…. hidden by sign..
…. 01 …. 0.0333 …. 040 ………...010 …. 000 ……………………………….. 100 …………………... Z220.6 …….. hidden by sign..
…. 02 …. 0.0667 …. 070 ……….. 060 …. 010 ………………………………. 050 ……………………. Z221.2 … half hidden by sign..
…. 03 …. 0.1000 …. 100 ……….. 100 …. 010 ………………………………. 040 ……………………. Z221.8 … half hidden by sign..
…. 04 …. 0.1333 …. 100 …….... 100 …. 010 ………………………………. 030 ……………………. Z222.4 …….….... no flip [edit 1dec2023][Andrew Mason has pointed out that there is a small flip or bulge in Z222].
…. 05 …. 0.1667 …. 090 …….…. 100 …. 020 ……………………………... 010 ……………………. Z223.0 …….….... no flip ..
…. 06 …. 0.2000 …. 080 …….... 100 …. 050 ………………………………. 005 …………………….. Z223.7 …….….... no flip ..
…. 07 …. 0.2333 …. 070 ……….. 100 …. 100 …………………….………. 000 …………………….. Z224.3 …….. flipped ..
…. 08 …. 0.2667 …. 060 ……….. 100 …. 100 ………………………….…. 000 …………………….. Z224.9 …….. flipped ..
…. 09 …. 0.3000 …. 050 ……... 100 …. 100 …………………………….. 000 ……………….….…. Z225.4 …….. flipped ..
…. 10 …. 0.3333 …. 040 ……... 100 …. 080 …………………………….. 000 ……………….……. Z225.9 …….. flipped ..
…. 11 …. 0.3667 …. 030 ………. 100 …. 050 …………………………….. 000 ……………….…... Z226.8 …….. flipped ..
…. 12 …. 0.4000 …. 020 ………. 100 …. 030 ……………………………. 000 ……….…………... Z227.3 ……...….. blurred frame ..
…. 13 …. 0.4333 …. 020 ……... 080 …. 020 ……………………………... 000 ……….………….. Z227.9 ……...….. blurred frame..
…. 14 …. 0.4667 …. 010 ……... 050 …. 010 ……………………………... 000 …………….……. Z228.4 …….. hidden ..
…. 15 …. 0.5000 …. 010 ……... 030 …. 005 …………………….……….. 000 …………….….…. Z229.2 …….. hidden ..
…. 16 …. 0.5333 …. 000 ………. 020 …. 000 ……………….….…………. 000 …………….……. Z229.8 …….. hidden ..
…. 17 …. 0.5667 …. 000 ……... 010 …. 000 …………………..…………. 000 …………….……. Z2230.3 …….. hidden ..
…. …. …. 0.6000 …. ……. ……... …... …. …... …………………..…………. ..... …………….……. Z231.0 …….. hidden ..

In the above analysis we can see that the max lapel flip happens at frame07 2 frames after the jacket bulge starts to diminish at frame05.
Latimer's frames are at 30 fps. So, 2 such Lattimer frames would have an interval of 1/15th of a sec. Which is similar to the interval (1/9th sec) between Z222 & Z224.
Mystery solved.
Z222 shows us mainly jacket bulge, plus a little bit of upper-lapel flip.
Z224 shows us mainly a large upper-lapel flip, plus some jacket bulge.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

In my giff of Lattimer's 1994 bulge & flip the tie appears to be short, shorter than the lapel even.
The tie comes out (in 1994), & the end of the tie lifts up to about where we might possibly see it over the top of the side of the jfklimo in the Zapruder 1963 frames/giffs (if the tie came out in 1963).
Anyhow, the tie might have come out in 1963, but it is unlikely that the coming out would be vizible in Zapruder.
I will have a closer look at the 1963 frames to see if there is any hint of tie coming out.

I forget whether Lattimer said that in 1994 the jacket did not bulge nor the lapel flip unless the slug was tumbling during outshoot.
Or whether Lattimer was referring to the lapel flip only.
In any case we can safely assume that the shirt bulges as per the jacket. We can see a bit of shirt bulge in 1994, but i dont think we can see shirt bulge in 1963 (shirt might have bulged, but not vizible in Zapruder)(too blurry etc).
And anyhow why would the movement of the shirt be important?
Its strange that the 1994 lapel on Connally's left side duznt appear to bulge or flip at all.

Lattimer's outshoot in 1994 is much closer to centerline than the outshoot in 1963, & higher. The 1994 outshoot was just a couple of inches from the tie.
In fact the 1994 slug took a big chunk out of the edge of the lapel (as can be seen).

Nice work.

[Tom Graves]

Connally's lapel flip at Z224.
The exiting slug missed the lapel by a mile. And in any case it was at Z218 plus or minus a frame or two.
What caused the lapel to flip?

Did the slug exit a bit side-on? In which case it shook the whole coat. And that shaking caused the lapel to stand up at Z218 -- which Zapruder didnt show koz it woz black on black. And then a gust flipped  the lapel further so  that Zapruder did show it.

What have i missed?

The lapel flap can first be seen in Z-223.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

The lapel flap can first be seen in Z-223.

Yes, my early postings on this forum were often naive, but i was learning fast (thanx to many smart members here).
And my postings early on in my threads were often wrongish, but got better later in the thread.
For example early on i thort that Hickey's auto burst started at the headshot at Z312, later i realized that the headshot was his last shot (of at least 4 shots).

[Tom Graves]

[T]he headshot was [the] last shot (of at least 4 shots).

LOL!!!