Oswald: No power lunch

[Jerry Freeman]

Dan O posted an excellent map of the TSBD 1st floor........




 

That floor plan looks like a Robert Cutler draft.
My curiosity concerns the basement of the building. What is in that basement? Is it or not 100X100 feet square like the rest of the floors? What was in that basement back at the time of the assassination? Was the basement searched for possible hidden suspects when the cops stormed the building?

[Martin Weidmann]

To add to my previous reply to Mitch Todd, let's examine for a minute the hypocrisy of his position.

In his last post he wrote;

And there's one more thing to consider:

Adams testified that she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor. She was allowed to review her testimony in print, and she literally signed off on it with not objections as to her testimony as to Lovelady and Shelley's presence in the first floor.

Although what he said is true, in as much as that it says that in her testimony and she did indeed sign the document, which btw happened several days after her testimony when somebody showed up at her workplace and asked her to sign it, after she initially waived signing it.

Todd's hypocrisy is nevertheless on full display, because in the same testimony, Adams also says;

Mr. BELIN - Sometime after the third shot, and I don't want to get into the actual period of time yet, you went back into the stockroom which would be to the north of where your offices are located on the fourth floor, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; that's correct.
Mr. BELIN - When you got into the stockroom, where did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went to the back stairs.

and

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs?
Miss ADAMS - I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN - So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, approximately.

yet Todd completely ignores that and dismisses it, while at the same time attaching great importance to the Shelley/Lovelady remark.

It is obvious there is a great discrepancy between the two remarks, as the Shelley/Lovelady remark implies that Adams and Styles left the 4th floor much later than Adams testified she did. When there are two contradicting statements from a witness, the best way to determine which one is the correct statement is to look for corroboration.

Sow, let's see what Adams told the investigators prior to her testimony;

On 11/24/63 FBI agents Hardin and Scott wrote in their FD 302 report that Adams had said;

"She and her friend then ran immediately to the back of the building to where the stairs were located and ran down the stairs"

On 02/17/64 she told Jim Leavelle;

"After the third shot I went out the back door" and "The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs"

and on 03/23/64 she told the FBI

"After the third shot I observed the car carrying President Kennedy speed away. Sandra Styles and I then ran out of the building via the stairs"

In all these statements, Adams is perfectly consistent in saying that she and Styles ran to the stairs after the third shot

And Sandra Styles backs her up. In her statement to the FBI of 03/23/64 she said;

"I heard shots but thought at the time that they were fireworks. I was unaware of the place the shots came from. I saw people running and others lie down on the ground and realized something was happening but did not know exactly what was happening. Victoria Adams and I left the office at this time, went down the back stairs and left the building at the back door.

And then of course there is Dorothy Garner who, according to Martha Stroud, said she saw Baker and Truly come up after the girls (Adams and Styles) had gone down. Garner explained to Barry Ernest that she did not actually see the girls go down, but she could hear them on the noise stairs.

All these statements sufficiently corroborate Adams testimony - I am paraphrasing - that she and Styles left their position at the window and went to the stairs at the back of the building within seconds after the third shot.

Now let's examine what corroboration there is for the Shelley/Lovelady remark.

To say that there isn't any would be a misrepresentation of the facts, because Jim Leavelle wrote in his report of 02/17/64 that Adams said;

"I saw Mr. Shelley and another employee named Bill"

But that's about it.

Note that Adams did not say when and where she saw Shelley and Lovelady. That bit of information was only added on during her testimony on 04/07/64. It should also be noted that Adams was not included in the re-enactment of the events on 03/20/64, so before she even testified the WC lawyers were already not interested in what she had to say about what actually happened on 11/22/63.

Also note that Shelley, Lovelady and Sandra Styles did not confirm the alleged encounter on the first floor at the TSBD and that closer examination of Shelley's and Lovelady's actions after the shot show that both men were in the railway yard next to the TSBD until 12:35, which means there is no physical way Adams could have seen both men on the first floor if she came down the stairs immediately after the third shot. On the other hand, it is indeed possible that Adams saw Shelley and Lovelady in the railway yard as she passed the men on her way to the front entrance.

And finally it should be noted that on 04/04/64 WC assistant counsel Leon Hubert wrote a remarkable memo in which he refered to a recent staff meeting in which he had objected to what he called "editing of the transcripts of depositions". In the same memo he also complains about the practice of waiving signatures by the witnesses and advocates to have witnesses read and sign the transcript even if it contains errors, which according to him can later be rectified.

Now, isn't it just remarkable that Victoria Adams initially waived signing her testimony, as that would save her from having to return to sign it, only to be confronted by somebody at work a few days later who insisted she would sign after all. And isn't it just as remarkable that Victoria Adams told Barry Ernest that she never testified that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor?

[Richard Smith]

Oswald took a rifle to work and assassinated the President.

That's a gross over simplification, and you should be embarrassed to post such silliness.

You've been around long enough to know that nobody can prove that Lee took a rifle to work , and in fact there is strong evidence that refutes the idea. 

And Lee had a very strong alibi that refutes any contention that he was on the sixth floor at the alleged "Sniper's Nest " at the time that JFK was murdered.  Lee said that he was in the 1st floor lunchroom when the president's parade passed by the TSBD.
And he saw two fellow employees pass through the first floor while he was sitting there in the lunchroom eating his lunch.

Why do you insist on keeping your head tucked in where you can't see or hear the truth/

A "strong alibi"!  Even a CTer can't believe that.  I want you on the jury if I'm ever arrested for a crime.  The only evidence of Oswald having an alibi is that he said so.  His rifle is found at the crime scene with bullet casings from that rifle by the window.  His prints are on the SN boxes and rifle.  He flees the scene within minutes even after a police officer pulls a gun on him without pausing to ask what is going on.  He is identified by multiple witnesses as the murderer of a police officer that occurs a short distance and time away.  But he tells the police he was having lunch so it's all good.  HA HA HA.

[Walt Cakebread]

A "strong alibi"!  Even a CTer can't believe that.  I want you on the jury if I'm ever arrested for a crime.  The only evidence of Oswald having an alibi is that he said so.  His rifle is found at the crime scene with bullet casings from that rifle by the window.  His prints are on the SN boxes and rifle.  He flees the scene within minutes even after a police officer pulls a gun on him without pausing to ask what is going on.  He is identified by multiple witnesses as the murderer of a police officer that occurs a short distance and time away.  But he tells the police he was having lunch so it's all good.  HA HA HA.

The only evidence of Oswald having an alibi is that he said so. ....and it was supported unknowingly by two of his fellow workers, Junior Jarman and Horold Norman.  They testified that they passed through the first floor shipping room and passed by the Domino room at about 12:26.   Lee said that he saw them as he sat there in the Domino room eating his lunch.

[Richard Smith]

The only evidence of Oswald having an alibi is that he said so. ....and it was supported unknowingly by two of his fellow workers, Junior Jarman and Horold Norman.  They testified that they passed through the first floor shipping room and passed by the Domino room at about 12:26.   Lee said that he saw them as he sat there in the Domino room eating his lunch.

How does that support his claim?  Oswald worked in the building for weeks.  As a result, he knew Jarman and Norman worked there and and he made something up knowing they moved about the building at lunch time.  Probably every employee in the building passed through there.  He didn't exactly have to be Nostradamus to do that. Who saw Oswald to corroborate his story?  You really think Oswald sat in a public area of the building and none of his coworkers could confirm his presence there?

[Jon Banks]

How does that support his claim?  Oswald worked in the building for weeks.  As a result, he knew Jarman and Norman worked there and and he made something up knowing they moved about the building at lunch time.  Probably every employee in the building passed through there.  He didn't exactly have to be Nostradamus to do that. Who saw Oswald to corroborate his story?  You really think Oswald sat in a public area of the building and none of his coworkers could confirm his presence there?

There were several black employees who worked in TSBD. What are the odds that he would guess that Jarman passed by the lunch room and was accompanied by just one other person?

It would be easier to believe he was just guessing if he said Jarman was alone or said he was with a group of employees.

[Richard Smith]

There were several black employees who worked in TSBD. What are the odds that he would guess that Jarman passed by the lunch room and was accompanied by just one other person?

It would be easier to believe he was just guessing if he said Jarman was alone or said he was with a group of employees.

He could have picked just about anyone who worked there and said they passed by.  And they probably did given the time and location and fact that many employees were heading out for the motorcade.  Oswald had also worked there for weeks and observed the patterns of behavior.  He would have know who had lunch where and with whom on a typical day.  It would be no great feat to make something up.  More importantly, though, who saw Oswald there?  Old Ozzie was perhaps the most politically astute person in the entire TSBD workforce but he is not going to even bother to step outside to watch the presidential motorcade.  The same guy who checked JFK's book out of the library to read.  And the fantasy conspirators are going to trust the entire plot to frame Oswald to luck by allowing him to roam about the building during the assassination and not be noticed by anyone who could give him an alibi or even do the most likely thing that day to head out of the building in the company of dozens of coworkers, cameras etc.   It is laughable.