Why are the CT's so obsessed with disproving the innocent Bus and Cab rides?

[Dan O'meara]

Outstanding post Dan.  Don't hold your breath on getting any reasoned response.  It has always amazed me how CTers struggle against the bus to nowhere and cab ride.  Imagine the difficulties and risks to the conspirators to fake all this.  And why fake both a bus and cab ride?  It makes no sense as a planned event as it achieves nothing from a conspirator's viewpoint but introduces a great deal of complexity.  How do they know, for example, which bus and cab are in the area?  How do they convince random bus passengers and a cab driver to lie or at least not to blow the whole story by contradicting it?  And on and on.  And that doesn't even get into Oswald himself admitting it.

Thanks Richard.

Because I find it difficult to believe Oswald acted alone I am a CTer by default, which I find quite embarrassing as I'm lumped in with the  nutjobs pretending to find the "truth" but who are in fact propping up their fragile egos.
I find the only reasonable voices on this forum belong (almost exclusively) to LNers but any reasonable discussion would be instantly swamped by the aggressively rabid rantings of the unstable.
I feel there are issues with the LN position but not many. I certainly believe that once Oswald leaves the TSBD after the assassination he is on the run and he is on his own. He has no plan except to get his gun and head for the border but his encounter with Tippit has him hiding out in the Texas Theater where he is caught.

And don't worry, I won't be holding my breath waiting for a reasoned response from Otto 

[Walt Cakebread]

I have no problem with Oswald taking the bus, abandoning it, then getting a cab.
I believe that's how he got to the rooming house.
It's you who's struggling with Oswald's movements. I have a vague memory you believe something really wacky but I can't remember what it is, just that you didn't have the balls to openly state it and someone else had to do it for you.

The word you're looking for is "advice".
Feel free to keep any advice you're offering to yourself

You've never spoon fed me any evidence. Ever.
You never answer a direct question or deal with any issue raised that you can't explain.

What does Whaley's manifest tell you?



This is how you answer a direct question.

Looking at the above manifest, in particular entry #14, the first thing to notice is the "P" in the left hand column. This indicates the fare was a 'pick-up'. 8 of Whaley's fares that day were 'pick-ups' and 13 were 'calls'. If the passenger was Oswald fleeing the TSBD we would expect him to be a 'pick up'.
The next relevant column tells us the pick-up point was 'Greyhound'. This is a reference to the Greyhound bus station at 207 Lamar Street. Whaley was parked on Lamar close to Jackson. He spotted 'Oswald' approaching south on Lamar. This is the direction we would expect Oswald to be approaching from if he'd abandoned the bus on Elm St.
The next column tells us the destination was '500 No. Beckley', the 500 block on North Beckley Avenue (note no specific house number is given). This is the street Oswald lives on, so the fare travels from close to the TSBD to close to 1026 North Beckley. This is what we would expect if it is Oswald. That he gets dropped off past his address is easily explained as someone on the run wanting to check if anyone is waiting for him outside where he lives.
The next column reports the fare as 95 cents (incorrectly reported as 85 cents by Fritz)
The next column indicates it was a single passenger as we would expect if it was Oswald.
The next two columns record the time picked up and dropped off. It must be noted that all the figures in these two columns are estimations. This is clear by the fact all the numbers are rounded up to either 5 or 0. The 8 fares between 11:00am and 2:45pm are all given in 15 minute blocks. This tallies with Whaley's account of not using a watch and estimating his times. The best we can say is that Whaley picks up this fare somewhere between 12:30pm and 12:45pm. As we would expect if it was Oswald after abandoning the bus.
The next two columns indicate that the distance travelled was 3 miles. All the figures in these columns are also rounded up. The actual distance of the trip is 2.6 miles and takes around 7 minutes.

There is nothing in Whaley's manifest that is inconsistent with the account of Oswald catching a cab after abandoning the bus.

The question is - why would anyone want to fake the bus ride and cab ride? What's the point? Why not just fake one or the other?
And if you believe they are fake then how did he get to the rooming house?

Looking at the above manifest, in particular entry #14, the first thing to notice is the "P" in the left hand column. This indicates the fare was a 'pick-up'. 8 of Whaley's fares that day were 'pick-ups' and 13 were 'calls'. If the passenger was Oswald fleeing the TSBD we would expect him to be a 'pick up'.
The next relevant column tells us the pick-up point was 'Greyhound'. This is a reference to the Greyhound bus station at 207 Lamar Street. Whaley was parked on Lamar close to Jackson. He spotted 'Oswald' approaching south on Lamar. This is the direction we would expect Oswald to be approaching from if he'd abandoned the bus on Elm St.
The next column tells us the destination was '500 No. Beckley', the 500 block on North Beckley Avenue (note no specific house number is given). This is the street Oswald lives on, so the fare travels from close to the TSBD to close to 1026 North Beckley. This is what we would expect if it is Oswald. That he gets dropped off past his address is easily explained as someone on the run wanting to check if anyone is waiting for him outside where he lives.
The next column reports the fare as 95 cents (incorrectly reported as 85 cents by Fritz)
The next column indicates it was a single passenger as we would expect if it was Oswald.
The next two columns record the time picked up and dropped off. It must be noted that all the figures in these two columns are estimations. This is clear by the fact all the numbers are rounded up to either 5 or 0. The 8 fares between 11:00am and 2:45pm are all given in 15 minute blocks. This tallies with Whaley's account of not using a watch and estimating his times. The best we can say is that Whaley picks up this fare somewhere between 12:30pm and 12:45pm. As we would expect if it was Oswald after abandoning the bus.
The next two columns indicate that the distance travelled was 3 miles. All the figures in these columns are also rounded up. The actual distance of the trip is 2.6 miles and takes around 7 minutes.

There is nothing in Whaley's manifest that is inconsistent with the account of Oswald catching a cab after abandoning the bus.

The question is - why would anyone want to fake the bus ride and cab ride? What's the point? Why not just fake one or the other?
And if you believe they are fake then how did he get to the rooming house?

Looking at the above manifest, in particular entry #14, the first thing to notice is the "P" in the left hand column. This indicates the fare was a 'pick-up'. 8 of Whaley's fares that day were 'pick-ups' and 13 were 'calls'. If the passenger was Oswald fleeing the TSBD we would expect him to be a 'pick up'.
Now, that's an astute bit of reasoning!!

The next relevant column tells us the pick-up point was 'Greyhound'. This is a reference to the Greyhound bus station at 207 Lamar Street. Whaley was parked on Lamar close to Jackson. He spotted 'Oswald' approaching south on Lamar. This is the direction we would expect Oswald to be approaching from if he'd abandoned the bus on Elm St.

WOW! Another brilliant observation.  However you neglected   to mention that Whaley said that he was at the bus depot at 12:30 and Lee Oswald was still at the TSBD at 12:30, Whaley also noticed that the man was dressed in a BLUE JACKET, and BLUE trousers, and of course Lee Oswald was NOT wearing a BLUE JACKET o r BLUE trousers. So you're flat wrong in naming Lee Oswald as that man.

The next column tells us the destination was '500 No. Beckley', the 500 block on North Beckley Avenue (note no specific house number is given). This is the street Oswald lives on, so the fare travels from close to the TSBD to close to 1026 North Beckley. This is what we would expect if it is Oswald. That he gets dropped off past his address is easily explained as someone on the run wanting to check if anyone is waiting for him outside where he lives.

What an utterly absurd idea!!.....The time would have been about 12:40 ( because Whaley logged his passenger out of his taxi at 12:45.  Just plain old common sense would tell a reasonable person that the police couldn't be at the rooming house just ten minutes after the shooting. This idea is actually a real hoot and  belly buster.  One caveat....    The police could have been at the rooming house if they had fore knowledge that Oswald was the designated patsy and he was living at 1026 N. Beckley.     DO YOU BELIEVE THE POLCE HAD FORE KNOWLEDGE?

The next column reports the fare as 95 cents (incorrectly reported as 85 cents by Fritz)

Fritz did not "incorrectly" report what Lee told him.   There were other officers in the room and they recorded that Lee said he paid the driver of the taxi he was in, 85 cents.   You know this is the truth, so why do you embarrass yourself with such a blatant lie?

The next column indicates it was a single passenger as we would expect if it was Oswald.

The fact that the man was alone is somehow evidence that the man was Lee Oswald!1   


The next two columns record the time picked up and dropped off. It must be noted that all the figures in these two columns are estimations. This is clear by the fact all the numbers are rounded up to either 5 or 0. The 8 fares between 11:00am and 2:45pm are all given in 15 minute blocks. This tallies with Whaley's account of not using a watch and estimating his times. The best we can say is that Whaley picks up this fare somewhere between 12:30pm and 12:45pm. As we would expect if it was Oswald after abandoning the bus.

Wow! another absurd conclusion!.....  Whaley's trip manifest says that he dropped his passenger at 12:45 and then drove to "station" and picked up another passenger at 1:00 pm , and he was back at Greyhound at 1:15.....  He couldn't have picked up the man who was wearing a BLUE JACKET and delivered him to 500 N. Beckley much later than 12:35 , and then made it to "station" in time to pick up another passenger at 1:00pm.

The next two columns indicate that the distance travelled was 3 miles. All the figures in these columns are also rounded up. The actual distance of the trip is 2.6 miles and takes around 7 minutes.

What was the elapsed time when the WC had Whaley re-enact his trip.?...   

There is nothing in Whaley's manifest that is inconsistent with the account of Oswald catching a cab after abandoning the bus.

At last...A reasonable and truthful statement.....EXCEPT.....  Lee told the interrogators that he rode in a CITY cab and the fare was 85 cents, so he was NOT in Whaley's taxi....

[Vincent Baxter]

As much as I'm enjoying reading all the posts in this thread is anyone actually going to come up with an explanation of how Oswald got from Dealey Plaza to his Rooming House in less than half an hour if the bus and taxi ride combo is actually nonsense?

[Dan O'meara]

A few things Walt,

Your notion that Oswald was picked up at 12:30pm exactly and dropped off at 12:45pm exactly is embarrassing.
Look at all of the times Whaley records in his manifest, there are all rounded figures ending in 5 or 0. Many of his fares are recorded in 15 minute blocks. any buffoon can see they are estimations, just as Whaley says they are. They are not to be treated with the precision you give them. This is so obvious.
Look at the times and ask yourself if they represent the actual times he picked people up and dropped them off.

Just because Whaley was at the bus station at 12:30pm doesn't mean he picked up Oswald at this time.

Where is Whaley's quote that Oswald was wearing a blue jacket? I can't find it.

[Dan O'meara]

As much as I'm enjoying reading all the posts in this thread is anyone actually going to come up with an explanation of how Oswald got from Dealey Plaza to his Rooming House in less than half an hour if the bus and taxi ride combo is actually nonsense?

No

[Vincent Baxter]

Very Well, Mr Mytoe....  It is a recorded FACT that Whaley said that the man whom he transported to Oakcliff was wearing a BLUE JACKET and BLUE trousers that matched the BLUE Jacket.

Lee went to his room at 1:00pm at the rooming house and changed his clothes Those items of clothing were found in the dresser where Lee told the interrogators he had placed them.   Detective Potts recorded the items that they found in Lee's room ..... Potts recorded that the shirt was a REDDISH BROWN, long sleeve shirt, with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR.   There was NO  BLUE clothing found in Lee's room...And there was NO JACKET ....

Clearly , Whaley's passenger was NOT Lee Oswald.   

Clearly it wasn't Oswald...even though Whaley actually identified Oswald in the police line up as being the passenger he took to Oakcliffe?

Are you basically insinuating that Whaley was incapable of making a reliable positive ID of his passenger when face to face with him in a line up but when it came to getting a definitive and accurate description of what he was wearing hours earlier there's absolutely no possibility of him making a mistake?

 

[Walt Cakebread]

Clearly it wasn't Oswald...even though Whaley actually identified Oswald in the police line up as being the passenger he took to Oakcliffe?

Are you basically insinuating that Whaley was incapable of making a reliable positive ID of his passenger when face to face with him in a line up but when it came to getting a definitive and accurate description of what he was wearing hours earlier there's absolutely no possibility of him making a mistake?

 

Hi Vincent....In a nut shell....I believe that Bill Whaley was a big BSer....... He started BSing his fellow cabbies about how he had transported the killer just minutes after he'd shot the President.    It was all BS....  Whaley did in fact transport a young man to 500 N. Beckley but it was NOT Lee Oswald.    He said the man was dressed in a BLUE JACKET and BLUE trousers.... That was NOT how Lee was dressed.   He never realized that his dispatcher would call the police and notify them that one of the drivers had transported Lee Oswald just minutes after the assassination.

At any rate once he'd opened his mouth and started lying ...he was stuck.   He was too embarrassed to admit that he had been BSing and the cops didn't want him to admit it....They needed Whaley to show that Lee had traveled by bus and taxi to reach the rooming house. At that point they wanted proof that Lee had in fact been at the scene of the crime......