Et tu, Bonnie?

[Colin Crow]

There is footage of Messrs Williams, Arce and Shelley being put in a police car to be taken down to police headquarters. The time (at least this is my understanding) is approx. 1pm, perhaps a little earlier.

Mr Williams in the car looks very distressed. Has he heard the bewildering and terrifying information that police have identified the fifth floor southeast window as the source of the shots?

I believe the time was closer to 1.30. Fritz had requested Senkel to gather all those who had been on the sixth floor to be taken for statements. This occurred about the time of the rifle discovery and Truly informing Fritz of Oswald's absence.

Williams looks distressed because (at least) he had only just been in the SN.

[Alan Ford]

I have no problem with the CYA approach after the event by many involved. That’s why I look for corroboration.

They already had Given's mentioned as the owner of the bones on the 6th floor by Shelley in his initial statement. The time the bones were placed there would not preclude him.

OK, but nothing to preclude Mr Williams either----who may have proved more pliable under pressure than Mr Givens (who seems to have insisted he ate a sandwich of the non-chicken-bones variety......)

[Alan Ford]

By the time Fritz got there they had been placed in the bag and moved.

How do we know that?

[Alan Ford]

I believe the time was closer to 1.30. Fritz had requested Senkel to gather all those who had been on the sixth floor to be taken for statements. This occurred about the time of the rifle discovery and Truly informing Fritz of Oswald's absence.

Messrs Williams and (especially) Arce suggest it was considerably earlier than that.

Mr Shelley words the following reply rather carefully:

Mr. BALL - Were you there when they found anything up there?
Mr. SHELLEY - I was, I believe I was on the sixth floor when they found the gun but we were searching all parts of that floor.

I would be just as slow to trust what Captain Fritz, Detective Senkel or Mr Truly have to say on this!

Perhaps shadow analysis of the footage/photographs showing Messrs Shelley, Williams and Arce would resolve this timing issue?

[Dan O'meara]

Messrs Williams and (especially) Arce suggest it was considerably earlier than that.

Mr Shelley words the following reply rather carefully:

Mr. BALL - Were you there when they found anything up there?
Mr. SHELLEY - I was, I believe I was on the sixth floor when they found the gun but we were searching all parts of that floor.

I would be just as slow to trust what Captain Fritz, Detective Senkel or Mr Truly have to say on this!

Perhaps shadow analysis of the footage/photographs showing Messrs Shelley, Williams and Arce would resolve this timing issue?

It's not conclusive but the lack of activity on the front steps and in front of the TSBD in general gives me the impression that this pic was taken a lot later than 1:00 PM when Sawyer had his command post outside and the search of the TSBD was still in full flow.
Looking at the background it looks as if things have really calmed down. It would be tempted to put this at closer to 2:00 PM but 1:30 pm seems reasonable (ish).

[Dan O'meara]

OK, but nothing to preclude Mr Williams either----who may have proved more pliable under pressure than Mr Givens (who seems to have insisted he ate a sandwich of the non-chicken-bones variety......)

If the lunch remains were a set up, Givens would be the choice because Williams was supposed to be with Jarman and Norman.
Givens was on his own and already had form with the local authorities, so was easily controlled.

I've come to accept that Jarman and Norman's differing statements are a result of trying to cover for Williams and his lie that he wasn't on the 6th floor. Williams tries everything in his power to distance himself from the SN at lunch-time.
For whatever reason, Williams, Jarman and Norman don't co-ordinate what they are telling the authorities, hence the conflicting accounts.

[Alan Ford]

Question for those who believe Messrs Norman & Jarman just happened to decide watch the motorcade from five rather than six..............

If Messrs Norman and Jarman had decided to go to six rather than five, what do you think would have happened?