Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.

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Author Topic: Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.  (Read 100252 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2021, 01:18:08 AM »

I gather from your response that you are assuming that it is the holes in the clothing rather than in the body that determines where the bullet struck.  Why?

You gather incorrectly.
Go back and look at the images. It is clear the hole in JBC's jacket is way below the wrist position. There is no way you can explain it away. You can only deny the obvious.

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Or are you suggesting that the yellow dot matches the location of JBC's right nipple?

The dot represents the bullet hole in JBC's jacket

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I would also point out that the jacket cuff had bullet hole 1/2 inch wide and 3/8 inch from the end of the sleeve:


Since that sleeve end is not seen, we cannot be sure exactly where it was. 

picture sharing

The cuff of JBC's jacket is clearly seen.
I've put on an arrow to help.

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It is interesting to note that the shirt cuff had two holes.  One hole went from 1/2 inch above the end of the shirt cuff (3 inches from the cuff fold edge) to the end of the cuff (2.5 inches from the cuff fold edge).


If you go 3 inches down from the end of the french cuff and on the side next to the chest, that appears to be where the bullet struck.  The bullet appears to have fragmented on striking the radius and the fragments deflecting off the back of the radius passed through the middle of the cuff causing a large irregular tear.

The other hole in the shirt sleeve was a very jagged horizontal hole whose edge was 1 inch from the end of the cuff fold and the other edge was 1 inch from the end of the french cuff (ie. about 2.5 inches from the cuff end):


Without realising it you've provided the third piece of evidence highlighting the impossibility of a shot around z270.
In the image above it is clear the end of the jacket sleeve and the french cuff of his shirt don't line up in a way that explains the holes in each. JBC's jacket sleeve is too far down, there is too much of the shirt sleeve showing.
In the above image it is possible to determine where the radius is (at the point where his wrist is flexing, up near the tie knot). The jacket sleeve is a good few inches below this point.
How is it possible for a bullet entering the sleeve of the jacket to shatter the radius?
Answer - it's not.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2021, 08:00:15 PM »
You gather incorrectly.
Go back and look at the images. It is clear the hole in JBC's jacket is way below the wrist position.
It is also below and medial to the exit point on the chest, which was at the level of the fifth rib, just below and slightly medial to the right nipple.  Here is the difference:



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There is no way you can explain it away. You can only deny the obvious.
It is rather simple, actually.  Use the actual location on the body and not the clothing

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The cuff of JBC's jacket is clearly seen.
I've put on an arrow to help.
Uh, no. That is the edge of the hat, not the jacket cuff.  Prior to z272, the hat is covering the view of the jacket cuff.  The hat is not directly touching the jacket sleeve. The end of the jacket cuff where the bullet struck is not visible in the zfilm until after z271.

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Without realising it you've provided the third piece of evidence highlighting the impossibility of a shot around z270.
In the image above it is clear the end of the jacket sleeve and the french cuff of his shirt don't line up in a way that explains the holes in each. JBC's jacket sleeve is too far down, there is too much of the shirt sleeve showing.
In the above image it is possible to determine where the radius is (at the point where his wrist is flexing, up near the tie knot). The jacket sleeve is a good few inches below this point.
How is it possible for a bullet entering the sleeve of the jacket to shatter the radius?
Answer - it's not.
I am not clear on where you think the bullet struck on the radius.  The pre-operative x-ray (CE691) shows this:


This wound was "rather oblique with some considerable contusion at the margins of it".  This is described in the operative record as being "over the junction of the distal fourth of the radius and shaft"  The other break in the skin was on the palm side of the wrist about 2 cm above (toward the elbow) from the flexion crease of the wrist.  (CE392, 16H533).  So the damage is some distance from the wrist joint.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 08:06:24 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2021, 02:55:18 AM »

Jerry, you are showing the wrist AFTER z271, which is when I say the bullet struck. The bullet created a jagged entrance wound and dragged mohair fibres into the wound. These fibres very likely came from the jacket cuff that the bullet had just passed through. That could easily have changed the relative positions of the jacket sleeve/French cuff/wrist/hand/hat.  So why don't you try making your argument based on the position of these things BEFORE z272?

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2021, 04:20:25 PM »


I know we look at things differently but some of your graphics are off the charts - this is one of them.
There could hardly be a more clear demonstration of the fallacy of Andrew's position.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2021, 07:26:01 PM »
I know we look at things differently but some of your graphics are off the charts - this is one of them.
There could hardly be a more clear demonstration of the fallacy of Andrew's position.
You are comparing a photo of a twisted turned torso with shoulders skewed to a photo of him standing upright.  Here is a better comparison:


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2021, 09:12:39 PM »
You are comparing a photo of a twisted turned torso with shoulders skewed to a photo of him standing upright.  Here is a better comparison:



I'm not getting any of the images you are posting.
I don't know if it's just me.
Photoimage seems to be the best way to upload images (IMO)

LATER EDIT:

Not Photoimage
Postimages (https://postimages.org/)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 11:04:00 PM by Dan O'meara »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald's shot-1 was at Z113.
« Reply #90 on: September 03, 2021, 11:47:12 PM »
Could be just a temporary sharing or permissions issue. Or your might have to add "http://dufourlaw.com" in the setting for "Exceptions" (if there is such a setting) of your browser and virus checker. The "http" might be the problem; it lacks the "s" for a secure site. Images were off for me for awhile yesterday but today is fine. So the "s" may not be the problem.

Eventually it works. Mason would email images to you if you were to PM (Personal Message) him here at the Forum. But then he might be off the Forum and not know about your message.

Mason posts every thing using his law firm's site in Saskatchewan. His documents describing his Pet Theory are also posted from there, in PDF form..

Andrew would need an image-hoster that's free, allows direct-linking to the image, has unlimited transfers and supports animated GIFs.
I use postimage for pix & pdf & gif.