JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
--- Quote from: Jerry Organ on August 28, 2021, 04:21:40 AM ---The Governor said he turn to his right when he heard the first shot, not to his left. Mrs. Kennedy made her head turn more to the left because she was engaged with the taking of the photo by Robert Croft.
Hickey said he looked right, not to his left, in reaction to the first shot.
"After a very short distance I heard a loud report which seemed like a firecracker.
It appeared to come from my right and rear and seemed to me to be at ground
level. I stood up and looked to my right and rear in an attempt to identify it."
Hickey doesn't say he looked to the pavement on his left.
--- End quote ---
Roselle & Scearce point out that Zapruder shows that Connally turned his head left (at Z150) & then turned his head right.
By the way, notice Kellerman (in passenger seat) looking facing turning pivoting hard right (koz he had heard JFK say my god i have been hit)(by small lead fragments at Z113)(seen in xrays).
Yes Hickey turns right & looks back to the TSBD at say Z255 (Altgens-5 or something).
Yes Hickey didnt admit to checking the left tyre(s) at Z143/144. But Zapruder shows that he did turn & lean & look.
Anyhow R&S reckon that shot-1 was 0.5 sec before Z133, Holland says 1.5 sec, i said it was at Z113 which would make it 20 frames before, ie 1.1 sec. Anyhow, Holland & i i think agree exactly on where shot-1 was, it was where the signal arm was on the line from the Carcano to JFK's back.
I might as well add, that Connally at shot-2 at Z218 (the magic bullet) was not turned to his right (as is always wrongly depicted), he was halfway throo turning to his left when he was hit (he said).
I might as well add, Hickey was sitting up on 2 leather cases, the big one was for praps the AR15, the small one praps for ammo.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
--- Quote from: Charles Collins on July 25, 2019, 10:00:00 PM ---In her book Tina Towner, page 7, she states: “ ...but there was not enough time before the first gunshot sounded—only a second or two, if that, after I stopped filming.”
I believe I have seen a video in which she said that the first shot sounded just about the time that she stopped filming. I don’t remember which video. But I will point it out if I come across it again.
Regardless, she didn’t time it with a stopwatch.
--- End quote ---
Yes i saw that footage too. Tina said that she stopped filming just before or just after the first shot. She was standing at that corner when talking. It wasnt long ago, some anniversary. At other times she has said that she stopped filming a couple of seconds before the shot, & even 4 seconds before. Anyhow i had a long look for that footage, but couldnt find it.
If my estimate of Z113 is correct for shot-1 then her T142 is at say Z118. Hence she stopped filming 15 Zapruder frames before Z133.
If Hollands Z106 is correct for shot-1 then Tina stopped filming at Z111, which is 22 frames before Z133.
The first shot was at T137, the slug hit the signal arm at T138, the sound hit Tina's ear at T139, the ear told Tina's brain at T141, & Tina stopped filming at T142.
So, she stopped filming at nearnuff the same time as the (sound of the) shot.
There should have been a camera jiggle at T139, due to the noise.
But Tina was holding tightly i guess.
And any jiggle would depend on aim/tilt of camera & on direction of shockwave i suppose.
There would have been a camera jiggle at say T143, due to a non-voluntary startle reaction.
And a camera jump at say T153 due to a voluntary fright reaction.
Mark Tyler:
--- Quote from: Andrew Mason on August 27, 2021, 01:04:01 AM ---Your points are well taken. The evidence does not support an first shot before Betzner's z186 photo.
However, while many witnesses recalled a shot pattern with two shots in rapid succession, the vast majority (over 40) specifically recalled the last two shots in rapid succession. See my compilation of these witnesses.
What this evidence tells us is that there was only one shot before the midpoint between shots 1 and 3 with the first shot not being before z186 and the last shot at z312-3
--- End quote ---
Hi Andrew. I agree with you, there were dozens of witnesses who referred to the final two shots being closer than the first two. There is an important issue about whether the head shot was the last shot, and what exactly the gap was between the final two shots. For example, some witnesses you mentioned in your analysis referred to a ratio of 2 to 1 between the gap lengths, so this could be 3 seconds and 1.5 seconds, or 6 seconds and 3 seconds (as suggested by Ralph Yarborough and Arnold Rowland respectively). In the Zapruder film we see the gap between JFK being hit by the two shots is about 5-7 seconds depending on exactly when he was hit during Z190-Z220, which suggests that if Arnold Rowland was close to the truth then the final shot was fired around Z360-Z400 which went wild as the Presidential limo was accelerating out of danger at that point (maybe this was the bullet which hit Tague via the kerb on Main Street?).
By contrast we have other witnesses who say that the two shots fired were both fired so rapidly they were almost simultaneously fired at the time of the head shot (as suggested by George Hickey and Sam Holland). It's hard to know the exact time frame, but it seems too rapid for a single bolt action gun to have been used (a pair of shots fired in less than 2-3 seconds probably means a second gunman was involved).
Clearly dozens of witnesses did not hear a shot after the head shot, but by contrast many definitely did hear a shot after the head shot (such as Charles Brehm and Emmett Hudson who were very close to the limo and saw the explosion we see at Z313). In addition, some witnesses like Mary Moorman and Jean Hill heard two shots after the head shot, so I am fairly certain there was at least one shot well after what we see at Z313 in the Zapruder film. I think many witnesses failed to register this final shot (or two) because they were running away in terror and were simply unaware of events due to the unfolding chaos (including a very loud siren being emitted from the Secret Service follow up car).
In summary, I find it hard to be 100% certain about whether there were 3 or more shots fired in total due to the very split witnesses. However, I am 100% certain that there were only 3 bursts of gunfire as nobody reported a fourth burst. Even AJ Millican who reported 8 shots grouped them into a pattern of 3-2-3. Naturally lone nut believers say he was confused by echoes, and conspiracy believers say each burst had a pair of shots in it. Without concrete physical evidence either way it feels rather moot, so I find it difficult to commit either way on the total number of shots fired.
Bill Chapman:
There is no evidence of a second gunman @Dealey.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
--- Quote from: Jerry Organ on August 28, 2021, 06:32:15 AM ---
For what it's worth, Hickey might have been propped against the cases, with his feet on the floor, up against the jump-seat.
--- End quote ---
Here is a pix of the cases.
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