JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
So, Oswald's shot-1 probly happened at T138 & Z113. Zapruder's frame rate was they say 18.3 fps. Towner's might have been 16 or 18 or 20 or 22 fps, no-one knows for sure. These frames are from Robin Unger's Gallery. I don’t know why T138 is missing. This is i reckon at Z113, Oswald's shot-1. I doubt that T138 will show anything much, it wont show the slug ricocheting off the signal arm, the remnant slug putting a hole in the floor of the limo & then hitting the drive-shaft & the road, the 2 fragments of copper jacket rattling around in the limo, the shower of small bits of lead hitting JFK in the back of the head.
If Oswald's shot-1 was at T138 then i would expect some reaction by T142, which is 4 frames later, but there is no obvious reaction from JFK & Co, or spectators. Praps the shot was at T139, & young Tina Towner didn’t react & shake the camera until T143, ie after she had already finished filming. Actually, if Oswald fired at T137 & the bullet ricocheted off the signal arm at T138 then the sound of the shot wouldn’t reach Tina until T139, the sound travelling say 120ft at say 62 ft per frame, whilst the slug travelled 107ft at say 120 ft per frame. Yes we should not expect much reaction from anybody until T143.
Actually in these 4 frames JFK is mostly hidden by the Policeman, & everyone in the limo is blurred. Pity.
T137. We can see JFK's head, looking to his right. Oswald fires shot-1.
T138. Missing. Slug ricochets off the signal arm. The remnant slug put a hole in the limo. Bits of lead hit the back of JFK'S head.
T139. We can see a little bit of JFK's head. Sound of shot arrives.
T140. Missing. Does anyone know where we can get a copy of missing frames?
T141. Head is hidden behind Policeman.
T142. Head emerges, JFK is raising his right hand to his head, as described by witnesses re Oswald's shot-1.
T143. Doesnt exist, Tina Towner had stopped filming.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
Here is in effect Towner frame T138, which is missing in Robin Unger's gallery. He shows T137 T139 T141 T142.
T138 & T140 are missing. And T143 never happened -- the last frame was T142 (i think).
So, here below is in effect frame T138, a printscreen from i think the Museum's online Tina footage.
Oswald's shot-1 was at Z112, say T137.
Slug hit signal arm (& fragments hit JFK) at Z113, say T138.
We know that Z113 was at T138 koz Nellie Connally is level with the end of the white painted road stripe, in the re-enactment footage, & in Tina's footage.
Sound hit Tina at Z114, say T139.
Tina hears bang at say T141.
Tina possibly had a non-voluntary startle reaction to the bang at say T143 (except that she stopped filming at T142).
Tina possibly had a voluntary fright reaction to the bang at say T145.
Here below are some more printscreens.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
Ok the above 10 screenprints are from the 6th Floor Museum on-line video of the Towner film.
https://emuseum.jfk.org/internal/media/dispatcher/42270/resize%3Aformat%3Dfull
The pix start at T133 (say Z108).
The shot might be at T138 (Z113).
The last is T142 (say Z117).
So here there are no missing frames.
In youtube interviews Tina Towner says that she stopped filming because the JFK limo was too far past. Tina heard a shot which she thought was a firecracker, at about the time she stopped filming. Tina couldnt remember whether the shot was just before stopping or just after (she said this whilst standing on the corner at a 50th anniversary or something)(but i cant find the footage now)(in other footage she says she stopped filming a couple of seconds before shot-1). Later she heard a 2nd shot. I dont remember what she said about a 3rd shot.
So, Tina's hearing doesnt contradict an Oswald shot-1 at T138 (Z113).
It contradicts an Oswald shot-1 at the oft-said Z155.
It contradicts an Oswald shot-1 at the much-said much-loved much-believed (much-lied) Z224.
Tina didnt mention getting a fright by the sound of the shot, or by the sound of Oswald's shot-2 (which i say happened at Z218).
So mightbe Tina didnt shake the camera. Or she did but only after T142.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
Victoria Adams heard Oswald's shot-1
either before her view of JFK was obstructed by a tree, or after, her wording is ambiguous. If Adams heard the shot after JFK was obstructed then that would be at say Zapruder frame Z123 or later, ie at least 10 frames later than what we know to be the actual position of JFK at the time of Oswald's shot-1, ie Z113. My understanding of her wordage tells me that she heard the shot before her view of JFK was obstructed, which accords with Z113 being the time &place of the shot.
Mr. BELIN - From the east side, were you standing in the third pair, of either of those windows?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now, of that third pair, from the east side, would it have been the east window or the west window?
Miss ADAMS - The west window.
Mr. BELIN - So another way, if you don't count in pairs, but count in single units from the east side, you would have been in the sixth window from your left as you were facing out the window, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That's right.
Mr. BELIN - Were you standing with anyone
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - With whom?
Miss ADAMS - I was standing with Sandra Styles, Elsie Dorman, and Dorothy May Garner.
Mr. BELIN - Will you state what you saw, what you did, and what you heard?
Miss ADAMS - I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them.
Mr. BELIN - Where was their car as you got .this good view, had it come directly opposite your window? Had it come to that point on Elm, or not, if you can remember
Miss ADAMS - I believe it was prior, just a second or so prior to that.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Miss ADAMS - And from our vantage point we were able to see what the President's wife was wearing, the roses in the car, and things that would attract men's attention.
Then we heard --- then we were obstructed from the view.
Mr. BELIN - By what?
Miss ADAMS - A tree. and we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot.
It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. Possibly because of the report. And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.
The pix shows the traject of the slug from Oswald to the signal arm & then to JFK.
And it shows the window where Adams was watching (with Dorman & others), & we see the tree.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
Here is a pix showing JFK's view back to Oswald at the place of shot-1, ie at Z113.
And it shows the window where Adams was watching.
Here is a pix where the tree would be obstructing Adams' view of JFK. Here JFK would be at about Z123, ie say 10 frames & 10ft past Z113.
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