JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuDIggv1SY1:25:21 long
Jerrol Custer Interviews with Vince Palamara and William Law 3/15/1998 Vince Palamara
19.6K subscribers Subscribed 1,879 views Feb 25, 2022
I am posting these for ZERO money (totally free) and for research purposes only. They are now posted elsewhere, a part of this has been released on a DVD and Blu Ray, it has been almost 24 years since this was done and closing in on 59 years since the assassination; enough is enough! This was the basis for the Jerrol Custer chapter in Willliam Law's outstanding IN THE EYE OF HISTORY. I had previously interviewed Custer with Harry Livingstone 11/22/91 which is documented in HIGH TREASON 2 and KILLING THE TRUTH (Tom Wilson, later on TMWKK, was also present).
Transcript
0:10
i hate to be materialistic about that i don't blame you a bit but you should look i've watched this time and time
0:16
again where people have taken advantage of you guys that's not going to happen
0:22
the honor that i'm getting from this the credentials i'm getting from this the hell of the money and i feel the same way even though this is bill's project
0:28
and he's the primary focus why's this all happen i'm honored to be here too you know i feel this is nice i feel like i mean you guys keep saying that to me
0:34
and i'm sitting here thinking jesus don't you're not saying i didn't do anything
0:39
you know i was i just did my job this is like this is like uh sitting
0:44
here this would be for me like talking to someone who had been in
0:50
attendance at lincoln's assassination yeah or he's old enough to have been there or it's like meeting one of the
0:56
beatles or something
1:07
yeah see you're even better than dealing plaza witnesses like a witness they didn't do anything you actually did something you were involved the x-rays
1:14
in the primary evidence you saw the body and those people can actually say i was just there you weren't there in the
1:19
comments oh that was so valuable if
1:34
let's start it officially because we're recording right now so one two three okay
1:41
um when were you uh alerted to go on duty
1:47
tomorrow this was between the hours of 6 30 pm to about 8 30 pm
1:54
we were lettered by the officer of the day he said that uh our services would be in
1:59
them needed in the morning to take an x-ray portable x-ray unit and numerous and i
2:05
do mean numerous cassettes that somebody of great importance was being brought to bethesda
2:12
then our services would be needed as post-mortem films what was your interaction with the
2:18
secret service agents there if any did you career in kellerman well siebert and
2:24
o'neal were literally up my nose they were attached to the hip
2:30
every place i went they went oh boy and she got to the point after the first set
2:35
of films that i had taken and headed up towards the see here's the thing the morgue
2:43
that we have the diagram here was in the basement
2:51
of the national naval medical center and the towers was up on the fourth floor where our
2:57
x-ray department so i had to get on an elevator i came out the door
3:02
here come down the hallway come around the corner go down in the
3:08
elevator went up to the main level i had to go down the main towards the
3:14
main rotunda and this is where i ran into jacqueline kennedy in the entourage that's right
3:19
because he said you had a handful of films i had a handful of films and uh o'neil was right in front of me he
3:26
stopped me as he saw them coming in and they never saw me but i saw them so he
3:32
stopped me and says stop i don't want you to run into the newspaper and you can see the the
3:37
flashes and going on when guys taking their the pictures of the kennedys
3:43
uh in fact i still remember the bloody suit that she had on
3:49
she hadn't had a chance to change right and they got onto the elevator which was
3:54
right as soon as you come in the main rotunda there's a main room here and it was just like a circular
4:02
hallway there were bank elevators that sat here on the left there was a hallway that went down the
4:10
dead center and down on the right here there were the executive offices like the commander-in-chief and
4:16
the national naval medical center and further down the hall is the emergency room
4:22
and then further down was the different offices and then one floor down was the cafeteria
4:29
and by the way in that 1988 video at that sylvia chase said now it's the cafeteria now where it used to be more
4:35
kind of if you remember that or yeah a lot of changes i understand there's a lot of trouble filming in the
4:41
uh bethesda they don't really even like people filming in there at all you know because it's a government facility yeah
4:47
yeah and if you know anything about government facilities you have to be checked upside
4:53
down and sideways and it's literally well i'm in the process of being cleared
5:00
now for a government job and i had to make a 12 page out of 12
5:06
page reference type application with all my relatives where they were
5:14
born and how old they were and the whole smear and then they go through and they make
5:20
sure that there's no i like in my college years i didn't belong to the uh sds student for
5:26
democratic society oh yeah remember that they called on so-called letterman oh
5:31
geez that was the frontrunners to the communist party oh my god absolutely
5:39
mccarthy now the city says mccarthyism oh i never forgot that oh man oh jeez so
5:45
did we cover did we cover how you came to be at the morgue yeah yes
5:51
uh it uh that i had taken the duty for one of my cohorts that it was his
5:57
anniversary and he wanted to surprise his wife and like i said i was 22 year old single
6:02
man that's four and a half hours from home i lived in a barracks
6:08
an extra duty to me was nothing duty there would you come in
6:13
looked around any necessary things you tend to be taking you took uh you carried a a beeper or you let the
6:21
officer today know where you were if they needed you for anything they called you and you slept over the barrens
6:30
well this is the question i was just thinking of tucson maybe they will cover something we were talking before
6:35
exactly how many skull fragments came in that night do you remember there's a little bit of controversy the exact number
6:40
it's kind of hard to remember but if i'm not mistaken from the next day
6:46
there was at least four that i can remember right off the top of my head okay at least four
6:56
because there were four fragments skull fragments and there was at least one two
7:03
three three small bullet fragments one
7:10
fragment about the size of my little baby finger the top half of it
7:15
and this is where i had to uh tape them to the the bond frame yeah
7:22
let's talk a little about the ebersall bust of kennedy uh let me go with a little detail about that yeah i don't
7:28
know who dr ebersol was blowing smoke up but he come in that one day and he said
7:33
that um i need you to take uh to do a special duty i have uh skull fragments here and i
7:41
have bullet fragments i want you to tape them to the bullet fragments to the skull
7:47
fragments and take x-rays out of different densities this is for abbastic kennedy
7:53
just look down again when you're in the service you don't question what your
8:00
an officer tells you to do you do it but what were the thoughts in your head when this fella came to you
8:06
and said we're making a bus to kennedy and i want you to take these fragments to pieces of scoldedness well let me put
8:12
it this way i can't say it on camera yeah okay okay i'll get you volumes
8:18
yeah i want you to do me a favor sure i'd like you to put
8:23
tell me where the wound in the head was located yeah the best of your recollection the wound in the head
8:29
yeah the best of my recollection it was in the frontal sinus on the right hand side just above the orbit
8:37
right about here okay now you claim that that's the entry wound that's the entrance okay how about the exit what
8:42
would you do the excellent one it's hard to tell because i one did not visualize it because the
8:49
body was constantly kept on its back from the main reason
8:56
you did not want to move the body as much as possible because i felt every
9:01
time i moved the body i changed the contour of the head so therefore that's why i took the
9:08
lateral films first then i took the ap film
9:15
then i took a tangential film a 10 general film is like
9:20
your you're laying the anatomical position again on the head
9:25
straight you have your defect while it's over here on the right hand
9:31
side you bring the film off to the side and you come in with an angle
9:37
just to show the gaping hole by the way those are missing too those are missing from there yes they are but
9:43
i remember previously you did say that the back of the head appeared to be gone there was no scalp there as far
9:50
here's where a lot of researchers screw up okay okay we're here to correct all that
9:56
not the back of the head okay let me get okay
10:09
okay now this is just a lateral picture now this isn't the correct side right okay
10:17
here's the back of the head right it's considered it called the occipital
10:22
region the defect
10:28
frontal temporal region now when you have that body
10:35
laying like that everybody points it and said that's the back of the head
10:40
and that's exactly what they were doing even a pathologist at night that's the
10:46
back of the head no that's not the back of that that's the top of that right okay now explain to me there's
10:53
been a lot of controversy and this is why some researchers point to forgery
10:59
that the back of his head was blown out if the back of his head was blown out why can he rest his head on that
11:05
that piece because the back of the head wasn't blown up this
11:11
was still intact and may not have been perfectly intact there was fractures in
11:18
there of course with all the destruction but this is the only region
11:24
if the back of the head was gone there would be nothing here to hold the head up but there was this would have been all
11:31
inside but there was a large defect back back there was a defect from here
11:38
to here only this was all that was that was ripped
11:45
torn it's just something an indian come in and scalped them
11:50
oh boy all right literally okay but so but it still jibes with the notion that
11:55
you saw the frontal entry wound and you still think that was an exit of some sort even if it wasn't technically back here it still made sense with
12:03
remember the trajectory 40 to 45 degrees okay okay you're going
12:12
in like this okay okay
12:17
are you blowing out the back of the head no not again okay frontal temporal region that's what's
12:24
being destroyed okay i showed you on the ap ap uh x-ray that explains all the
12:30
fractures are emanating from the front going towards the back
12:36
this is what i brought out in my book i share i told i answered many of those
12:42
questions there was at least a dozen if not more questions that i answered
12:49
in the book stating what actually is true and what actually is false
12:56
there's something else i'm going to bring out that it's going to come out later on a little
13:01
tidbit okay i had a special marker that i had that night
13:07
that i placed in all the films it wasn't visualized on any of the films that you had
13:13
it was visualized on the films that were in the archives
13:18
it showed positioning depth
13:25
and also showed what side wow and you're going to bring this out later
13:31
i'll bring this up later in the next book okay all right enough
13:37
which i like i reiterated again i'll make sure that you'll be the first one to know
13:42
i appreciate it's fair yeah now uh when you saw the body were there
13:47
any chest marks puncture wounds there was a bruising
13:53
on the thoracic pleural thoracic area
14:00
now i'm talking about a bruising is slight discoloration now at that time i did not notice
14:08
any particular openings all i saw was
14:14
yes i did i'll read take that back when we lifted them up to take
14:20
the skull films that's when a fragment fell out of the back of them
14:26
let's get a picture of that i believe we have one somewhere it should be right here
14:33
and there's also been a great deal of controversy about the back one and i'd like i'd like to clear that
14:42
up here we go here it is right here all right
14:50
they're saying let's make this one who gets it they were saying this is a back one
14:55
and this is a one right
15:01
that was the one this was not alone okay what was that
15:06
a piece of blood piece of wood one thing i've always wondered about maybe you can help me clear it up a
15:12
little bit the ruler that this person i don't know who these hands belong to in this film we're
15:18
assuming is hume's in boston but there's so much controversy about it's been forged and you know to me that
15:26
ruler doesn't mark anything it's just kind of on his back
15:33
now i'm surprising this now you tell me if it seems far-fetched
15:43
i'm looking for one particular film here here it is
15:48
what's that the throat line where's it located
15:53
look at the well okay just look for a second don't don't
15:59
try to think anything into it here's the neck right
16:05
here's the scapulas the scapulas run here
16:11
and here don't look at the ruler per se
16:16
what if i were to take the ruler and go like this
16:22
and remember an angling up
16:28
would that almost line up with that it would appear to if that's what we're looking at
16:35
if it's angled up i've never thought of before yeah yes
16:40
this comes from experience yeah you would know what i said
16:46
i'm not saying this is an exit wound i'm not saying it's an entrance one i'm just
16:52
from what i see here and what i see here
16:57
kind of clicks well there's gotta be a reason for it right
17:03
you gotta remember right down through here is the toughest part of the spine with
17:09
your thoracic spine so that'll stop a fragmented bullet
17:16
specifically if it's from a distance now
17:22
while we're on photos again i've always wondered there have been people that have said this is an entrance wound
17:28
this little fleck here did you see anything like this and there again you gotta remember
17:36
when i was there the body was never turned like this okay
17:42
the body was always on its back basically
17:48
this is what i couldn't understand whenever
17:53
you go in and take films specifically on a forensic case you do not move the body
18:03
you move it as little as possible because you can always destroy evidence
18:12
you change positions of bone you change position to the neck you
18:18
change everything [Music] doing this
18:24
they felt now we can play now and truthfully
18:30
that's what they're doing basically just lifting him up and
18:35
not really doing anything specific just getting pictures of it right but the bottom line is you do not believe that's
18:43
how about up here do you see this here the high select committee claimed that that was an entrance room there no okay
18:50
i don't believe that yeah okay and i can't remember who did the drawings when the house select committee used drawings
18:55
or maybe it was out of dots yeah this went from being a possible speck of blood to having a bullet entrance wound
19:03
in the head here it is again experts
19:08
surmising they're not thinking of the simplest thing
19:14
they're not they weren't there they didn't see you realize how filthy
19:20
excuse me i shouldn't say it that way because the man was the president of the united states
19:26
but the condition of the body it was a mess
19:31
there was brain fragments clots everywhere you touched them i mean
19:37
you were totally bloody and to say
19:42
well this is a bullet fragment and this is a scroll primer and this is this you can't say that
19:49
you'd have to go in and clean that area
19:55
have you ever watched an autopsy literally myself now
20:01
a lot of times when they think that there's a hole there
20:06
they'll go in and they'll remove that whole area and clean it up
20:13
okay and then there's no supposition at all it's right there
20:18
this is what the government banked on and we're talking about the back of the
20:24
head yeah as far as they have been on the experts looking in and saying oh that looks like a bullet
20:31
that can't be a fragment that can't be this why can't it
20:37
how about how about the notion that was brought out about 10 years ago it's still popular today did that some sort
20:42
of mad insertion because you can see how this is wet in a different texture than down here do you put any stock in that
20:47
or well and there again i have nothing to do with the films oh sure
20:54
all i can say i see what you're saying it looks like this was all brushed in
21:01
yes could be no i mean i don't know i see there's a lot of people because of this
21:07
picture that say they're holding up a flap of skin here
21:12
yeah with the hand right here yeah now in your opinion based on what you saw yes nothing's impossible yes it is
21:19
okay so you're saying that that is possible that is possible you know who would be perfect for this
21:25
if you could talk them into it this is floyd rabies
21:31
i'm in the process of contacting mr reed if you can talk him into this you know some of his
21:37
roles of film disappeared did he tell you which ones
21:42
uh he didn't mention it but some of his his roles have disappeared because there was many times when um
21:50
it finished a role of film the fbi government came out of the tank after he rolled it up wow
21:55
there was a lot of that in fact the first time i went up to or developed my x-rays
22:02
i'm not sure if it was seabird or nail there's one of the two of them wanted to walk into the dark room with me and i just went no there's where you stop
22:10
well i have to see what you're doing i said no you know you stay out there and i close the door
22:17
that's when i took the other set of films out and put them in the box let's talk about those for a minute when
22:23
you were going with an arm loaded films there's been
22:29
speculation or i've read somewhere that you took extra sets of x-rays
22:34
well not extra sets i double loaded and what does double loaded mean i'm not
22:40
putting two films in you're going to remember an x-ray cassette has two screens
22:46
and they're activated screens when when the x-ray goes through them
22:53
they lighten up the fluorescent just like your watch and you get an image on there and that
22:59
image is placed on the film so if your film is a little bit too dark
23:07
the one film is dark the one film is just right okay i understand so what did you do with these
23:14
i ran one film and put the other film in the lake book there was a process that we had was
23:20
called an old peco unit where it was like a table where you ran your film in and underneath there was a
23:26
light proof box you take one put it in put one in the box but you fill that one up put it over
23:32
there same thing and i went through each film that i took
23:37
and after everything was over and done that evening i came back and ran the film those were all good too i put them
23:43
in one of the mailing folders tied them up and hit them on the us and then insignia
23:51
in the department and kept them there for the longest time how long do you think they were there
23:57
undiscovered a couple months
24:03
and and what happened to these folks i destroyed them why'd you do that
24:08
because of the gag order that i had signed i didn't destroy them right away
24:15
after i thought on it and pondered on it a little bit and thought well if these films would happen to the
24:21
surface along the line here somewhere they're going to trace them back to me and guess
24:26
whose body's going to wind up in jail so eventually i destroyed them i thought
24:32
it wasn't worthy never thought never thought that later on down the road
24:39
that they could have been worth millions or they could have solved the whole problem
24:46
yeah because of the missing x-rays missing materials and things that could resolve but i also could be dead
24:53
yeah that's true too given given what you know given the fact that we all know that
24:59
there's been several deaths over the years some unexplainable things have happened to a
25:04
lot of people that have a lot to do with this case even today 34 years later going on 35 do
25:10
you have any fear if i were to say no i'd be lying
25:18
i still have a little bit there's still people around that don't want to be implicated
25:27
who come up with a one bullet theory i need i say more that's it
25:32
who come on bullets you have to be
25:39
somebody to stand there and blow smoke up your nose one bullet come on that bullet had to do
25:45
a fantastic dance yes
25:51
was there a george bakeman present do you remember that name his name has been tossed
25:57
you know what i think it was truthfully there was so much mass confusion going on
26:03
uh the two fbi agents were going around asking different names
26:08
these guys were twisted one way and twisted another and i think it was just
26:16
a mistake on their part one of the one of the witnesses that i
26:22
talked to one of your colleagues has told me that he felt during the
26:27
autopsy that the body had been gotten to before it ever came into the moor
26:33
what's your opinion on that well there again
26:39
all i can do is i can surmise to the fact that that's a good possibility because
26:45
when i was notified that the body was coming
26:50
in i was told that the body was coming from walter reed
26:56
all right you were told by the officer of the day who was i can't remember his
27:02
name right off the top of my head wasn't smoky stover what was his name
27:07
smokey stover no this was just a uh either a jg or and
27:14
that's a lovely little and this person told you personally that my body was coming from walter reed uh
27:22
and i feel that he told me something he shouldn't have because he was later reprimanded for it
27:30
now stop and think where's walter reed
27:35
hospital alexandria right but also it's in alexandria
27:42
three initials did i say more
27:48
that's okay that's great i think it speaks volumes in itself yes so
27:54
let's go to the let's go back to the more for a second i want a little more of the atmosphere
28:00
of of the morgue i've been told by other people that were there again your
28:06
colleagues that that i've had people say was absolute pandemonium
28:11
would you say that's true would you say oh absolutely there was hollering and scramming
28:19
and orders being given and [Music] different people saying this and
28:25
different people saying that was there was there anybody in charge that you know did anybody
28:31
assume charge absolutely it was quite evident throughout the evening
28:37
and who was that jfk's personal physician so you're saying dr berkley dr george
28:43
berkeley yeah was basically because he was also an admiral too foreign
28:50
absolutely positively said the kennedy family wouldn't want that
28:56
done and i don't think you should follow that line baloney
29:01
it's a forensic pathology autopsy
29:06
you're looking for evidence you have to do that to the body you have to do it
29:12
to find out what happened and i'll bring this up as a little antidote
29:20
many times i when we're taking the different x-rays i brought certain things to uh
29:27
dr abersol's attention and i was told to shut up
29:32
do my own job my own business that that's his job let me do my job you
29:38
do your job that's fine and i walked away
29:43
is there anybody that you can recall specifically being being in the morgue that night
29:53
the only one i'm really
29:59
it has to be kennedy's physician that's the only one because he's stuck on
30:05
i mean he was he wasn't quiet at all he even made comments about everything he didn't seem
30:12
to be in any kind of shock or loss or mourning or no he seemed like he was controlling everything
30:19
every little step along every step along the way and this is one thing that i couldn't
30:24
get over i ever saw brought it out in his deposition to do when he was asked by the medical
30:31
committee was there anybody in control that night dictating to you what you couldn't do
30:36
and what you couldn't do oh absolutely not there was nobody in control that was baloney
30:42
it was so eminent everybody knew who was in control what uh
30:49
boswell what humes what was their demeanor while this was going on they did what they were told to do
30:56
and that was it do you feel that there was any kind of little scenario uh going on and that they were going too
31:02
far they were just following along trying not to make waves for for
31:08
berkeley absolutely and when they stepped over the line they
31:13
were smacked so you don't feel that they hid anything they just
31:18
followed along and did what they were told to do they did what they told to do
31:25
but it's kind of funny though later on hume's destroying his notes yes why did
31:33
he keep such detailed notes
31:38
he did it for a reason humes was a politician humes knew how to manipulate things
31:45
humes was a career person
31:51
he knew how to protect humes's back
31:57
but evidently somebody got to him higher and more powerful than he thought
32:04
and he destroyed his nerves so he had to be hiding something
32:12
common sense will tell you that yeah i think that's a good place to stop well just one more thing i just think one
32:18
more thing we'll be really getting over here let's take a couple minutes um go ahead we got 15 tomorrow yeah and
32:23
then i'll be good i just thought of a couple more things for sure about uh what's your take on the notion
32:30
about a 1500 gram brain you know the weight of the brain being like basically
32:36
above average what's your take on that well see you're delving into something that's not my expertise i really
32:43
can't go in and say oh yeah you're right there or no you're
32:49
wrong there i want this to be the utmost
32:54
truth because what i know from experience
33:00
and from the knowledge that i've picked up and i really don't know anything about
33:05
that you know i never saw the brain i didn't know any weight shape or form i knew
33:11
they were weighing particular different organs and stuff
33:17
but that's the limit that it goes okay when going back to when they first brought
33:23
the brought the cough on them and they and they took the lid off of the coffin and again we're talking about
33:30
uh not an ornate coffin lid but a cheaply made uh coffin
33:36
when they took the lid off what what do you recall that the body was wrapped in was the body in anything
33:44
i'm asking this because there's been controversy about whether the body was in a body bag or not do you remember the
33:50
body being true what struck me funny the body was totally naked totally totally there was no clothes on
33:57
it at all the only thing that i can possibly remember and honestly saying
34:04
that really stuck up was the head was completely covered
34:09
down to the neck and there was a sheet wrapped around and i could see the sheet through the
34:14
through the clear whatever it was i won't say it was plastic and i don't really remember
34:20
honestly and i thought well my god the head must be really in a disarray if they have
34:26
something like that on it do you remember if it was if it was a zippable cover did it did it runs it but you
34:32
don't remember you can't remember that did you recognize president kennedy right away was there like no question about it well as soon as uh they took
34:39
the camera off i recognized him right away yeah what i just from a human interesting point what did that feel
34:44
like just knowing that this was the main see the bad part about it is that i had met the man prior
34:51
oh well you know he had bad he had a bad back yes and i had taken some x-rays on his
34:57
back and i talked to him you had yeah i never you met him while he was alive live right
35:03
and it was just an average joe how did how did he strike you
35:08
just like i said an average person it wasn't i'm the president of the united states johnson
35:15
typical politician get away from me son kennedy wasn't that way he walked up
35:22
shook my hand and what's your name and i told him i said where you from and
35:27
i told him said how long have you been there and i told him and
35:32
he says do you have any girlfriends
35:38
then i told him and we had a heck of a conversation
35:44
but he did have an extremely bad back he did yes and that was a war injury
35:51
did you you took the x-rays of his back right that must have been extra like more poignant to see well it kind of
35:59
shocked me i had to look at him twice because
36:05
there was a deformity he didn't actually look the way he normally look
36:12
and you have to remember it's due to postmortem rigor mortis bloating
36:18
blood um bloating but he's going to look at his neck
36:23
and see how bloated the neck is due to all that trauma you can see this right now
36:29
yeah there is a picture the again the stare death photo
36:35
where there's been some speculation that is this pretty much what he looked like
36:42
would you say that that is kennedy there's been speculation throughout the
36:48
community of researchers let me say something if you look at it look at his forehand here
36:55
look at how this all seems to invent
37:02
here again you gotta remember now the mortician was there
37:10
he had putty and wax you can't see any holes here
37:16
look how thick that looks then you think that's because the mortician at this point when this
37:23
picture started started his job right well let's see that that clears up a lot because i've
37:28
never heard of that before i didn't know that the mortician had already been there and started oh yeah as soon as i
37:35
walked away from the body to the galler's fueling people yeah yeah he was right there in fact
37:41
like i'd stand there with two coffins there one that they brought them in on one
37:46
they put them in and transported them to the car to the funeral so he wasn't the same prophet so you did
37:54
so basically in the morgue that night you did see two coffins right there was the ornate coffin right and there was
38:00
the so-called cheap shipping cast right and you saw both of those right here's one thing that a lot of the researchers
38:06
keep bringing up well was there another body in there that was supposed to be baloney
38:12
no why would they put another body in it this is the president of the united
38:18
states security was so tight
38:23
in fact when every time we came up through a few i'm not sure where it's at but
38:30
there's a picture of me coming up the hall that was taken through a keyhole i see
38:37
you in ed reed right yeah right it was taking the right video it was a special adapt that was placed on a camera and
38:44
taken through a keyhole well you saw the guards all over the place nobody was
38:49
logged in and every time i literally every time i left the morgue
38:55
i had either seibert or o'neill with me so they they stayed pretty much close to you
39:00
like one was here and one was there wow they didn't leave you they followed you followed me i think if i went to the
39:07
john they would have followed me did it i'm going to ask this simply so we can clear it up for a lot of people i know i
39:12
keep harping on this but this is basically how kennedy looked right the this is not oh you know a lot
39:19
has been made because you can't see pores in his skin in this photograph right and and that they say that
39:26
there have been writers that have written that this is a composite you know why you can't see of course why i
39:32
can tell you right now just look at it look at all this
39:38
they use heavy lashes on it and they burnt the pores out there's no
39:44
detail and that's basically because of crime that's basically this flash let me show you something else
39:51
what do you think that is i don't know yeah what is that i've heard from paul o'connor that that's a
39:57
wooden structure that was not in the mark that night he he said that that would have been
40:02
outside the front door
40:08
that is like a lock
40:14
there is a screw there there's a wheel there and there's a wheel over here
40:21
it's an extra machine let's point it towards the camera real well so that we can that because
40:28
it's an action machine there's a box to hold the films
40:34
you know why you know it's an extremely shame because i put it you're the one that put it there right wow
40:40
my god that's amazing but this whole warship
40:46
and you ask any photographer if you get too close with too
40:51
strong of a flash you'll get no skin detail at all none all right
40:58
do you want skin detail when you see wax up here
41:04
no think in a three-dimensional plane
41:10
wow yeah it's something i would never have thought about some of them was yeah but i thought about it
41:16
see what i'm saying yeah what do you see what you're saying
41:22
look here see the discoloration
41:27
well now that you mentioned it yes i've looked at this photograph hundreds of times not thousands oh yeah why do you
41:32
think you have that discoloration i don't know tell me
41:38
remember i showed you the wound
41:43
you're one little picture that you had right is it that's just blood in the tissue
41:50
all right here
41:55
turn your film exactly like that see it here we go
42:06
yes there is there well
42:12
all right now i understand and you're saying by the way you're saying this is missing this x-ray
42:18
it's not in the archives i'm going to tell you that right now and basically basically for the audience what what is
42:24
this picture this is an area that i took of that particular hole
42:33
just to prove that it was where the bullet had went through and i proved it
42:39
and i shut this is what i showed every song and this is where he told me do your job that's my job to interpret
42:50
all right you see that yeah sounds good makes a lot of sense yeah yeah thanks a lot i told you i'll blow
42:55
your socks off tonight i'm telling you something else this is detailed no one's ever gone into you know no this is this
43:01
is wonderful i just got one last question i think not close somebody come to blow on the whole thing
43:10
oh yeah yeah how about this this picture right here what's this for
43:15
this right here you want blood on you is that basically what that's for okay okay okay
43:24
oh wait no no no no i take that back i take that back
43:29
[Music] look at the arms there's an arm here okay there's a shirt sleeve here oh
43:34
there's an iron here okay that's his his grains right because they they had
43:40
him on his back and they okay they turned him up so that is the proper orientation for this photo not like this
43:46
no not at all they they as i understand it they took him and raised him up off the top
43:52
turning them toward them and that's why it's so hard that's part of his arm right there there's a part of his arm
43:57
there that's why it's so hard to to distinguish in these phones because they didn't go point by point they did
44:05
things that you would normally not do i mean
44:11
they were told what they couldn't do so they they got to the point like anybody you get disgusted
44:18
and then you just put your ties and play yeah so
44:24
that's what they're doing you don't think this was any attempt at all to to fabricate or alter or make it so that
44:30
that people couldn't understand that they just got tired of what was going on being told what to do not allowed to do
44:35
their jobs and so that's why these autopsy photographs come out the way they have right
44:41
that's my opinion this one looks like this one this one
44:47
is very important tell us why because it's missing
44:53
and again what does it show it shows bullet hole where a bullet hole
44:59
shouldn't be and they kept saying oh no that's not a
45:04
bull at all and you can see fragmentation of the bone here
45:10
if this was better quality you would also see bullet fragments throughout it this is
45:16
all kind of blurred there's no detail whatsoever well what part of the
45:22
for the audience again what part of the body are we looking at cervical spine cervical spine lower cervical spine this
45:29
is where it would be c 7667
45:36
that's just from the neck down what that what what are we looking at the lower
45:43
back there are seven cervical vertebrae there are 12 thoracic vertebrae
45:50
so this two vertebrae here are six and seven
45:55
they're two above t1 okay okay all right
46:01
right here alone would have paralyzed him okay
46:07
that was never brought up okay okay so you're saying in one
46:14
respect you would have survived the throat wound but as far as that goes he probably would have been
46:19
he would have been like fdr so to speak as far as wow now we've seen how he's um how he's when
46:27
he comes out from the road he's just like this yeah like clocks like that now that's called the
46:33
it's been uh the allegation is yeah that that's the thor burn
46:38
position yeah and and his arms went up like this do you feel that there's any possibility of that because of that one
46:45
that that the nerves went like this and that's why you don't see him grabbing his throat a lot of people say that he
46:50
grabs you he didn't grab his throat his fists come up he goes i guess his arms are up like this in a protective
46:57
almost football stance like all right let me show you something i don't want a mark right now
47:03
uh how you have your cervical spine
47:08
this is very you have your phosphate here for us here
47:15
you have a spinal cord coming through plus you have nerves
47:21
that come out here just like tree trunks when you hit the spinal cord
47:28
you short circuit everything and that brings everything up so let's let's show that
47:34
to the camera okay this is the drone right and so your tendency to bring up
47:41
so so basically the shock from the bullet made it like this right but not necessarily in the forward position
47:48
where it would well i can't attest to it right i know this is opinion but but you do
47:55
know you are in the medical field right and the nerves will make you do that definitely okay
48:02
good enough okay jesus i think we covered quite a bit yeah all right all right very good okay
48:08
let's wrap the camera up sounds good and we'll oh it's just going to be long
48:14
so what it is very good we can make a double tape
48:20
i figure it's at least three hours long now i'm sorry
48:26
well we took little breaks but this is this has been good
48:34
very happy about this okay very good i got this in the shot okay i'll tell you what um
48:41
one two three go tell you what jerry tell us a little bit about this picture i this is a picture of myself from
48:47
william reed who was a student that night in november of 63. this was taken
48:54
during uh the first trip back to the x-ray department
48:59
by a reporter that had a special lens attachment that shot through a keyhole
49:06
you can see myself in reed coming down the hall and you'll see the heads of a few of the
49:12
guards there was a marine guard there was a navy garden an army guard it was there
49:17
also um security was pretty tight that evening
49:22
so no reporters were actually allowed in and around the moor
49:28
area there anything else you need to know no that's about it i guess we can uh
49:34
start whenever you're ready you want the next picture uh yeah maybe that would be good this is the second photo from life
49:41
tell us a little bit about this picture i this is the same
49:47
the same people in the picture uh in fact
49:52
if you'll notice that was the officer of the day that informed me
49:59
that uh jfk was coming in from walter reed i do not know we still remember what the
50:05
man's name was but i'm sure that that can be found on quite easily and what night were these taken on
50:12
the night of the morning uh the night of the uh autopsy so this was taken on
50:17
november 22 19 november 22 1963.
50:24
okay very good we got it yes have we stopped the camera now um
50:30
it doesn't matter this could be edited so we can just start you know questions and stuff well now let's
50:35
get it off the picture now and so that we can all get in the frame again yeah i did i got it ready oh okay
50:41
while i'm sitting down i'll be up here you can get out there oh yeah
50:48
here we go okay we need to make sure i'm not blocking that he is the main subject no no he is
50:54
he's he's we're gonna he's he's main in there that's good questions
51:01
now let's uh let's start for the timing sequence of when
51:07
just to clarify a little bit about the point where you had x-rays in
51:12
your arms and you were going down the hallway and you saw jacqueline kennedy i'll let you
51:18
tell it in your own words i'd like to have more on that
51:24
all right uh we had i'm not sure it was seibert or o'neill but one of the two of the fbi agents were with us at the time
51:32
they happened to stop us just before we came into the rotunda
51:37
and we saw the entourage of jacqueline kennedy bobby kennedy was there
51:42
and were encircled with uh newspapermen and they were taking pictures in fact a little tidbit for yourself is
51:50
that during that time also dennis david
51:55
was up on the second floor looking out the window and witnessed
52:02
the entourage calling in and he also knew at the same time
52:07
that the body was in the morgue so he realized there were two puffins
52:14
he's told me that yes he's personally told me that what was your feelings when
52:20
you came out of there with an arm load of x-rays and and you see jacqueline kennedy
52:26
coming in the front door it sort of surprised me in effect and i
52:32
knew in fact if you were to see my appearance at that time
52:39
my white smock that i had on that was in the pictures was bloody
52:45
and i had to literally destroy it so i was covered with blood
52:51
and i had to clean the x-rays off when i got back up to the department
52:57
so she would have known had to have known or surmised
53:02
that i was doing something oh truthfully i don't think she knew
53:08
that the body was there you don't no i think she thought the body was with her
53:15
at that time so the body had to be separated from her at one time or another
53:21
beyond her knowing what was going on
53:26
tell you what um i want to ask you do you think the body was tampered with in any fashion
53:34
i'm not i know this is opinion but but you are a medical person
53:41
let's speculate okay let's put it this way let's put it this way
53:47
with as much stuff as much cover-up as much influence
53:55
there was pressure that was on that night i wouldn't put her to pass them
54:06
i had an inexperienced radiologist
54:12
they told them to look for bullets that went in and didn't come on
54:19
and a forensic pathologist would look at that person and say you're crazy
54:25
we're looking for tracking entrance exits degree
54:30
of inclination they have two administrative
54:37
pathologists that hadn't done autopsies in umpteen years
54:44
all they did was process the paperwork
54:49
and they've never done a forensic autopsy
54:54
they had an influencing force in the gallery
55:00
that literally guided the autopsy throughout the evening
55:08
they had two two fbi agents
55:14
that created their own little pandemonium by
55:20
questioning people that night well now let's back up a little when you say that there was an influence in the gallery
55:27
are you talking about berkeley are you talking about someone else let's clarify that a little bit well let's
55:33
just put it this way i'm talking about jfk's personal physician and he let it
55:38
known be known that night i am jfk's personal physician
55:46
you will listen to what i say you will do what i say
55:53
okay and on the next point um continue with what you were going to say
55:59
about the the secret service agents did you say fbi no their wire secret service there
56:07
were you familiar with them did they really no they are they didn't quite
56:12
get involved with us they protect pretty much with the joint chiefs and uh but they were they there in the game i seem
56:18
to remember seeing the other two gentlemen there also but i know for a fact
56:24
that seibert and me over there because they were attached to my hip okay
56:29
they were literally how can i say uh
56:35
delegated to stay with me what was their what was their demeanor they filed a report
56:42
where they wrote surgery of the head area and there's been speculation that they
56:47
wrote that because they heard it from a doctor that was that was there at the autopsy all right now here's the thing
56:54
you have to remember these two gentlemen are laymen
57:00
when an autopsy is performed surgery of the wounds are performed
57:09
so there's a possibility they could have heard it from boswell or humes
57:14
or i think at that time because he arrived later on and he was more
57:20
aggressive we're talking about think now right he was more aggressive
57:25
in his mannerisms and procedure than boswell and humes boswell
57:33
and humes were like puppets did he seem to be frustrated by
57:38
by being told no you can't do this or you shouldn't do that or only take this so
57:43
far um that's kind of difficult to remember because
57:50
he did what he was told and if he was frustrated he kind of hit it
57:56
so he just basically went along like he went along humes he didn't he didn't put up a bus
58:02
i i want to get to to how they must have been all of you must have been under extreme pressure oh we were
58:09
being watched constantly everybody watched us there was different times when
58:16
i literally had to scream at people to move in that close
58:23
area you're taking x-rays which are you have a machine
58:29
producing ionizing radiation and you have to be
58:34
within a distance of six feet to be within a safe area
58:41
just to give you a for instance if you would go today have a barium enema
58:48
you would actually be sterile for six months a lot of people don't know that
58:54
really stability for six months
59:01
now this is what i can get a little technical here but this is with an 18 inch
59:07
focal film distance on the tube itself or target film
59:13
distance let's put it down where you have the anode which is like a little wire and then you have a tungsten target
59:19
and this is fires electrons across and this is what produces the
59:25
radiation okay i understand and this is the older
59:33
floral tubes so this would coincide with that time in 63 right
59:38
now you were you were there
59:44
you know about the events of that night
59:50
let's turn the camera off for a minute because i i let's just let it run i forgot the question i was going to ask
59:57
i have something go you fill it in okay um are you aware the allegations of uh
1:00:03
was it i don't know it was an admiral or captain david osborne about the bullet falling out of the body
1:00:08
during the autopsy i guess when they lifted them up did you see a whole bullet or a fragment
1:00:13
that would fall out of prison well i wouldn't call it a fragment i'd say it was pretty sized
1:00:20
a real lord right because it created such a fuss they ran over with a set of forceps
1:00:27
forceps are like a pair of scissors but they're flattened on the end so they could grab
1:00:32
and then grabbed it picked it up and put it in a little basin of water now now this is
1:00:39
this the the bullet now you when you were doing the x-rays and and you had him on the table and
1:00:45
moving him around didn't you tell me at some point in some of our earlier conversations
1:00:51
that a bullet fragment fell out of the president this was
1:00:57
this was the time that they found that okay and what happened what was their demeanor
1:01:02
what was what happened when that bullet fragment fell out the i called
1:01:08
one of the surgeons or one of the pathologists sermons said hey we have a bullet here
1:01:13
as soon as they heard that they come down off of the uh raised platform and ran over and then they
1:01:20
picked it up then siebert and neil also come over and said well we want that that's
1:01:26
because they have a receipt for a missile a lot of times people think it's semantics it wasn't a friend so you're saying it wasn't a whole bullet it was a
1:01:33
sizeable fragment of it was well let's
1:01:38
see you you're beginning in semantics here about sizable uh
1:01:44
it was distinguishable enough to know it was a bullet okay what but it wasn't complete because
1:01:51
there was some fragmentation some area of destruction on the bullet just for clarification what area of the body did
1:01:58
it fall out that was the upper thoracic the upper back okay so so it fell out it
1:02:04
literally fell out of the back room right all right well now the single bullet theory
1:02:11
would have us believe that the bullet went in came out his throat
1:02:17
hit conley in the in the right armpit came out broke his left wrist and they
1:02:23
cut the radial nerve and went into his leg so if you're telling us
1:02:28
that that the bullet fragment fell out of the back that blows the single bullet theory to
1:02:33
hell right there right and also the fact it was too low on the back to exit the neck you know as far as the right to
1:02:40
left trajectory vertical on horizontal too and you're absolutely certain
1:02:45
this bullet fragment fell out of the back absolutely the back moved itself out of the bathroom we lifted them up
1:02:51
man boom and that's where it come on that's corroboration for david osborne too
1:02:56
yeah that would explain missile received from siebert and o'neal right that's something that that i've wanted they
1:03:02
documented everything that happened that evening
1:03:07
okay this will be you this is a break hello
1:03:16
you break we'll pick it up with with james right okay okay
1:03:24
yeah am i am i all right yes i'm not blocking you're fine he's the vocal
1:03:31
okay one two go
1:03:36
you want me to bring in the bud uh mr jenkins are you finished with uh
1:03:41
we're talking about yes uh just in fact in everything that occurred that night
1:03:47
uh siebert and o'neill documented everything somebody got up and left they documented
1:03:52
it so they were there documenting everything everything now to my
1:03:58
understanding the log book there was a log book that is normally kept of people that go in and out
1:04:04
of of the area is that correct right now as i understand it
1:04:10
that's missing it's gone and has been missing since that night correct if paul connor memorized the number remember
1:04:16
that is correct and he could do it from memory right yeah it was gone it's totally disappeared what do you feel about that
1:04:23
that's part of the up they don't want people to know this is why
1:04:28
the chief was taken care of literally he actually had photographic evidence
1:04:36
they didn't want to be they didn't want out and by the chief who are you talking about chief mitchell
1:04:42
now i know we went into chief pitzer um a little bit last night
1:04:48
and maybe we've covered him enough but
1:04:53
dennis david who who was pitzer he was
1:04:58
pitcher was a mentor to dennis david and they were and they were basically best friends right
1:05:04
i've been told by him that that that he helped edit film
1:05:09
correct that night um and there's been no cooperation from that
1:05:14
uh for that um except that you you've said that you you saw him you do remember him
1:05:21
absolutely filming right and he dennis david also told me
1:05:28
that he saw pictures of a wound in the side of the president's head a small
1:05:34
bullet wound now you're going to remember something dennis david
1:05:40
is a layman his anatomy sometimes can be a little evil not to be
1:05:46
desired when he considered the side of the head could be here
1:05:52
or here all right but i would say the side of the head would be the temporal region there was
1:05:58
no bullet wounds here really okay he did mention on anyone on a certain tv documentary he did point to
1:06:05
here as far as what he said was the entrance wound and it appeared president kennedy was shot from the front viewing
1:06:11
this film right yeah so would you say that's correct i would say that's pretty close to where
1:06:17
it was when you're discussing something with somebody
1:06:23
you don't actually hit it right on you can come off to the side a little bit and see where i'm at
1:06:30
actually it was right in here you could see where this the fragment is where it went in
1:06:37
the destruction you had the picture
1:06:44
watch where the lines emanate from there's a focal point
1:06:49
that's the shell entrance back to the same simple theory
1:06:55
look at what you have it's as plain as the nose on your face dumpster might as well the boy looked
1:07:02
like at the back of the head there no look at your fracture
1:07:08
where do they come from where do they start at where's all the damage it
1:07:15
you see damage on the frontal sinuses you see damage on the orbit
1:07:22
the floor of the orbit the orbital ridge
1:07:27
if a bullet goes in the front you'd have fracturing in that area the
1:07:33
bullet would come out that front go in at the back and come
1:07:38
out that front you wouldn't have no orbital area or the frontal sign that's it
1:07:44
if you've ever seen anybody that has been shot in the back of the head and the bullet accident from the face
1:07:50
there's not much of the face left and you've seen such things i've seen such things so you would know basically what
1:07:57
a bullet would do if it hit you in the back of the head correct so you would know what to look for and
1:08:02
you could tell this man was hitting the back of the head there wouldn't be any question in your mind right you'd see all the facial damage
1:08:09
when a bullet goes in it expands destroys tissue you have fragments bullets tissue bone
1:08:17
coming forward all that is one big mass
1:08:22
and it just brings everything and this is not indicative of someone who was shot no this would all be gone all right what
1:08:28
would you say what you're going to get is people that are going to say what it was a steel jacket a bullet it was it
1:08:35
was made to stay in place we're talking about the carcano now okay that's fine let them say that
1:08:42
explain away all the fragments yeah there's dust like fragments here all
1:08:47
over the place if you had a steel jacket a bullet that remained intact or partially intact
1:08:54
99 intact the steel jacketed bullet is meant to go in
1:08:59
kill and come back out so you're not going to see fragments you're not going to see dust
1:09:05
particles right but not that much and you wouldn't see that sizeable
1:09:11
fragments in there like that that bullet went in and exploded
1:09:18
that's what it's used for and what about the notion i know you said something yesterday briefly about his uh eye was
1:09:24
what hanging out right right and that's basically from the destruction
1:09:31
of all the tendons and ligaments within the eye and the muscles that were
1:09:36
destroyed from being severed on the bullet at one end that's what sam kinney said the
1:09:41
driver of the fall car when he first saw the parking he said that his right eye was on his chin right
1:09:46
literally it went straight up wow and there was nothing to hold it
1:09:53
the only thing that held it is maybe a few small muscles that one torn in the skin itself
1:10:00
here you can see the eye was placed back like i said last night the mortician was already here
1:10:07
he had started his work after i had completed mine
1:10:13
all right okay that's why i can't say i really truthfully have nothing to do
1:10:18
with these photos and i can't authenticate them one way or
1:10:25
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
59:57
VINCE i have something go you fill it in okay um are you aware the allegations of uh 1:00:03 was it i don't know it was an admiral or captain david osborne about the bullet falling out of the body 1:00:08 during the autopsy i guess when they lifted them up did you see a whole bullet or a fragment 1:00:13 that would fall out of the president
CUSTER well i wouldn't call it a fragment i'd say it was pretty sized 1:00:20 a real bullet right because it created such a fuss they ran over with a set of forceps 1:00:27 forceps are like a pair of scissors but they're flattened on the end so they could grab 1:00:32 and then grabbed it picked it up and put it in a little basin of water
BILL now now this is 1:00:39 this the the bullet now you when you were doing the x-rays and and you had him on the table and 1:00:45 moving him around didn't you tell me at some point in some of our earlier conversations 1:00:51 that a bullet fragment fell out of the president
CUSTER this was 1:00:57 this was the time that they found that
BILL okay and what happened what was their demeanour 1:01:02 what was what happened when that bullet fragment fell out
CUSTER the i called 1:01:08 one of the surgeons or one of the pathologists nonaudible said hey we have a bullet here 1:01:13 as soon as they heard that they come down off of the uh raised platform and ran over and then they 1:01:20 picked it up then siebert and neil also come over and said well we want that that's
VINCE 1:01:26 because they have a receipt for a missile a lot of times people think it's semantics it wasn't a fragment so you're saying it wasn't a whole bullet it was a 1:01:33 sizeable fragment of it
CUSTER was well let's 1:01:38 see you you're beginning in semantics here about sizable uh 1:01:44 it was distinguishable enough to know it was a bullet
VINCE okay
CUSTER what but it wasn't complete because 1:01:51 there was some fragmentation some area of destruction on the bullet
BILL just for clarification what area of the body did 1:01:58 it fall out
CUSTER that was the upper thoracic the upper back
BILL okay so so it fell out it 1:02:04 literally fell out of the back wound
CUSTER right
BILL all right well now the single bullet theory 1:02:11 would have us believe that the bullet went in came out his throat 1:02:17 hit conley in the in the right armpit came out broke his left wrist and they 1:02:23 cut the radial nerve and went into his leg so if you're telling us 1:02:28 that that the bullet fragment fell out of the back that blows the single bullet theory to 1:02:33 hell right there
CUSTER right
VINCE and also the fact it was too low on the back to exit the neck you know as far as the right to 1:02:40 left trajectory vertical on horizontal too
BILL and you're absolutely certain 1:02:45 this bullet fragment fell out of the back
CUSTER absolutely
BILL the back wound itself out of the back wound
CUSTER we lifted him up 1:02:51 man boom and that's where it come out
VINCE that's corroboration for david osborne too 1:02:56 yeah
BILL that would explain missile received from siebert and o'neal
CUSTER right
VINCE right
BILL that's something that that i've wanted to clear up
CUSTER they 1:03:02 documented everything that happened that evening
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
--- Quote from: Marjan Rynkiewicz on December 19, 2023, 10:49:58 PM ---59:57
VINCE i have something go you fill it in okay um are you aware the allegations of uh 1:00:03 was it i don't know it was an admiral or captain david osborne about the bullet falling out of the body 1:00:08 during the autopsy i guess when they lifted them up did you see a whole bullet or a fragment 1:00:13 that would fall out of the president
CUSTER well i wouldn't call it a fragment i'd say it was pretty sized 1:00:20 a real bullet right because it created such a fuss they ran over with a set of forceps 1:00:27 forceps are like a pair of scissors but they're flattened on the end so they could grab 1:00:32 and then grabbed it picked it up and put it in a little basin of water
BILL now now this is 1:00:39 this the the bullet now you when you were doing the x-rays and and you had him on the table and 1:00:45 moving him around didn't you tell me at some point in some of our earlier conversations 1:00:51 that a bullet fragment fell out of the president
CUSTER this was 1:00:57 this was the time that they found that
BILL okay and what happened what was their demeanour 1:01:02 what was what happened when that bullet fragment fell out
CUSTER the i called 1:01:08 one of the surgeons or one of the pathologists nonaudible said hey we have a bullet here 1:01:13 as soon as they heard that they come down off of the uh raised platform and ran over and then they 1:01:20 picked it up then siebert and neil also come over and said well we want that that's
VINCE 1:01:26 because they have a receipt for a missile a lot of times people think it's semantics it wasn't a fragment so you're saying it wasn't a whole bullet it was a 1:01:33 sizeable fragment of it
CUSTER was well let's 1:01:38 see you you're beginning in semantics here about sizable uh 1:01:44 it was distinguishable enough to know it was a bullet
VINCE okay
CUSTER what but it wasn't complete because 1:01:51 there was some fragmentation some area of destruction on the bullet
BILL just for clarification what area of the body did 1:01:58 it fall out
CUSTER that was the upper thoracic the upper back
BILL okay so so it fell out it 1:02:04 literally fell out of the back wound
CUSTER right
BILL all right well now the single bullet theory 1:02:11 would have us believe that the bullet went in came out his throat 1:02:17 hit conley in the in the right armpit came out broke his left wrist and they 1:02:23 cut the radial nerve and went into his leg so if you're telling us 1:02:28 that that the bullet fragment fell out of the back that blows the single bullet theory to 1:02:33 hell right there
CUSTER right
VINCE and also the fact it was too low on the back to exit the neck you know as far as the right to 1:02:40 left trajectory vertical on horizontal too
BILL and you're absolutely certain 1:02:45 this bullet fragment fell out of the back
CUSTER absolutely
BILL the back wound itself out of the back wound
CUSTER we lifted him up 1:02:51 man boom and that's where it come out
VINCE that's corroboration for david osborne too 1:02:56 yeah
BILL that would explain missile received from siebert and o'neal
CUSTER right
VINCE right
BILL that's something that that i've wanted to clear up
CUSTER they 1:03:02 documented everything that happened that evening
--- End quote ---
Ok lemmeseeenow.
I reckon that that CUSTER fragment fell out of jfk's head, either from inside the head (AR15), or from outside (eg from the hair)(Carcano)(from shot-1 ricochet).
I reckon that Custer was wrong. The fragment did not come from the back/neck wound (Carcano)(impossible).
I reckon that the fragment fell out of (or off) the head earlier, & the fragment was sitting (stuck) to jfk's back, ie under jfk. And then fell off his back when jfk was moved.
If it was a large fragment then it must have come from inside the head (AR15).
I reckon that a large fragment on the outside of the head (from ricochet)(Carcano) would have been evident at Parkdale.
If it was a small fragment (Carcano) then i reckon that it could have been (hidden) on the outside of the head (or it could have been on the inside)(AR15).
If the fragment was on the outside (Carcano) then the question arises........... was the fragment made of copper (brass) or lead? I think lead (from Carcano)(or from AR15).
If the fragment was copper (brass) then that would definitely be from the ricochet (Carcano).
And the question arises........ did the fragment fall out before or after or during the xray(s)? I think before.
But, Custer said that he took his xrays after jfk had been moved around. Dunno.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
--- Quote from: Marjan Rynkiewicz on December 19, 2023, 10:49:58 PM ---CUSTER well i wouldn't call it a fragment i'd say it was pretty sized 1:00:20 a real bullet right because it created such a fuss they ran over with a set of forceps 1:00:27 forceps are like a pair of scissors but they're flattened on the end so they could grab 1:00:32 and then grabbed it picked it up and put it in a little basin of water
CUSTER the i called 1:01:08 one of the surgeons or one of the pathologists sermons said hey we have a bullet here 1:01:13 as soon as they heard that they come down off of the uh raised platform and ran over and then they 1:01:20 picked it up then siebert and neil also come over and said well we want that that's
VINCE 1:01:26 because they have a receipt for a missile a lot of times people think it's semantics it wasn't a fragment so you're saying it wasn't a whole bullet it was a 1:01:33 sizeable fragment of it
CUSTER was well let's 1:01:38 see you you're beginning in semantics here about sizable uh 1:01:44 it was distinguishable enough to know it was a bullet
VINCE okay
CUSTER what but it wasn't complete because 1:01:51 there was some fragmentation some area of destruction on the bullet
VINCE that's corroboration for david osborne too 1:02:56 yeah
BILL that would explain missile received from siebert and o'neal [/u]
--- End quote ---
I reckon that the Custer fragment was probly a small part of the hollow point AR15 .223 slug that exploded in jfk's head, but this small fragment would not look like a bullet.
The main remnant fragment of that slug (that looked like a bullet) exited jfk's head & cracked the windshield.
Tests in gelatine all show that a hollow point yields a remnant fragment that looks like a bullet. And it penetrates a long way past the smaller fragments. And it sometimes veers say 10 degrees.
Praps that remnant slug bounced back into jfk's head (after cracking the windshield). Highly unlikely.
Praps it lodged in jfk's clothing (instead of jfk's head), but then the slug would surely have been found at Parkland.
Its a mystery. Ok. I have made up my mind.
Its the remnant from the headshot.
But where did it finish? In head? In clothing?
And how come it wasnt found at Parkland?
And where is it now?
It was never heard of again (in official reports). Koz it was obviously not from a Carcano, it was from the AR15.
I need to read up on what Dr David Osborne said.
Marjan Rynkiewicz:
https://www.patspeer.com/reclaimng-history-from-reclaiming-history-part-ii
After reading Pat Speer's wordage (link above) re the autopsy, i reckon that Custer & Osborne did not see
a largish slug (fragment) fall out of JFK or his clothing (sheets).
775. AFIP Record 205-10001-10002, Memorandum, Dr. Finck to Brigadier Gen. J. M. Blumberg, Personal notes on the Assassination of President Kennedy, February 1, 1965 (hereafter “Memorandum, Finck to Blumberg”), p.1; also ARRB MD 28; Breo, “JFK’s Death, Part III,” p.1749.
7:30 p.m. (8:30p.m. EST)
At the Bethesda Naval Hospital, a hot white light illuminates the hands of the two pathologists huddled over the body of the late president. In the interests of time, Dr. Humes decided not to wait for Lieutenant Colonel Finck to arrive at Bethesda. Instead, he and Dr. Boswell set about the task of recovering the two largest bullet fragments seen in the X-rays of the president's skull. The hole in the right side of the head was immense (over five inches in its greatest diameter), making access to the brain relatively easy. Portions of the skull, literally shattered by the force of the bullet, fall apart in the hands of the two pathologists as they try to reach the minute fragments behind the right eye and near the back of the skull .795
795. 2 H 353–354, WCT Dr. James J. Humes; 2 H 94, 100, WCT Roy H. Kellerman; ARRB MD 47, Affidavit of Francis X. O’Neill Jr., November 8, 1978, pp.4–5.
Both are recovered,
NOTE: THIS IS NOT TRUE. THE LARGEST WAS RECOVERED FROM BEHIND THE EYE, AS WAS ANOTHER SMALLER ONE FROM BEHIND THE EYE.
433 Both are recovered: Conspiracy theorists, eager to find an extra fourth bullet, one more than Oswald is believed to have fired, and hence a conspiracy, got very excited when they learned that the receipt for the two fragments turned over to FBI agents Sibert and O’Neill on November 22, 1963, and signed by the two agents, refers to a “receipt of a missle [sic]” (HSCA Record 180-10120-10362; JFK Doc- ument 014834). But the HSCA concluded that “the receipt was in error.” Chester H. Boyers, the navy corpsman who typed the receipt, gave HSCA investigators an affidavit under penalty of perjury that contained his handwritten notes at the time of the autopsy, in which he jotted down during the autopsy that “there were bul- let missile fragments recovered. These were placed in a specimen container and delivered to me. The FBI was there and wanted them.” The affidavit says that “although the receipt states that a ‘missile’ was transferred, this is an error” (HSCA Record 180-10120-10362, Affidavit of Chester Boyers, December 4, 1978 p.3, p.2 of accompanying notes). Both Agents Sibert and O’Neill confirmed to the HSCA that they received two bullet fragments, not a missile. As Sibert put it in an affidavit, “Regarding the receipt for the ‘missile,’ I do not recall exactly how the receipt described the fragments but it was certainly not for a whole missile, rather it was for some fragments. [“Two metal fragments,” he says earlier.] A single mis- sile to me means considerable substance, more of a whole bullet. This receipt was prepared by someone else and typed up by a naval corpsman. If I had prepared the receipt, I would have listed the items as metal fragments” (7 HSCA 11–12; JFK Document 002191, HSCA interview of Sibert on August 25, 1977; HSCA 180- 10100-10135, Affidavit of Sibert on October 24, 1978, p.5; JFK Document 006185, HSCA interview of O’Neill on January 10, 1978).
In 1975, Dennis David, a navy first-class petty officer at the time of the assassination who later became a key cog in conspiracy author David Lifton’s zany body-alteration theory, claimed that he was the one who typed up the receipt for the bullet fragments. During an interview for Lifton’s book, David claimed that a Secret Service agent reportedly dictated the receipt in the administrative offices, describing the physical characteristics of four bullet fragments. David said he kept no copies. “I just typed it on an original . . . and handed it to the Secret Service agent. And the agent made some comment about, ‘This is considered classified material. Secret.’ Or something to that effect” (Lifton, Best Evidence, p.579). By 1997, David was claiming that the unnamed agent allowed him to handle the frag- ments, then admonished him about security concerns, told him to treat the information as classified, and confiscated all copies of the memo “including the pieces of carbon paper, and even took the ribbon from the IBM Selectric typewriter with him” (ARRB MD 177, ARRB interview of Dennis David, February 14, 1997, pp.2–3). David’s credibility couldn’t be any lower in this regard. His name doesn’t appear on any list of personnel involved in the autopsy (7 HSCA 8–9), nor is his story about typing the receipt for four bullet fragments corroborated by anyone. In addition, David admitted being hypnotized in 1994 in New York State to recover memories of the autopsy events (ARRB MD 177, ARRB interview of Dennis David, February 14, 1997, p.4; see also Law with Eaglesham, In the Eye of History, pp.12–13).
Although the “fourth bullet rather than two fragments” argument is deader than a doornail, David Lifton has persisted in trying to keep it alive, and his weapon is the faulty memory of others.
In 1978, Admiral David Osborne told HSCA investigators that at the time of the autopsy (Osborne was then a captain and chief of surgery at Bethesda) he saw a “fully intact, copper-clad slug” roll out of the president’s clothing onto the table when the president’s shoulders were raised to remove the suit coat Osborne said Kennedy was wearing (ARRB MD 66, HSCA Outside Contact Report of interview of Admiral David Osborne, June 20, 1978, p.3).
Of course, throughout the HSCA’s entire investigation no one else had told the committee about seeing a slug on the autopsy table or anywhere else at Bethesda.
The HSCA said it “recontacted Admiral Osborne and informed him that the body of the president had not arrived in any clothes [as Osborne said], but was wrapped in sheets, and that no one else recalled anything about the discovery of a missile.
Osborne then said that he could not be sure he actually did see a mis- sile and that it was possible the FBI and Secret Service only spoke about the dis- covery of a missile” (7 HSCA 15–16; ARRB MD 16, HSCA Outside Contact Report of interview of David Osborne on June 20, 1978, p.3).
Lifton contacted Osborne the next year and Osborne proceeded to tell him his original story, claiming that Kennedy arrived in his casket in his clothing, and a “reasonably clean, unmarred” bullet fell from the clothing.
But now Osborne added a real zinger. He not only saw the bullet, which is what he told the HSCA, he held “that bullet in my hand.” (Lifton, Best Evidence, pp.645–646) My, my.
Lifton next contacted Captain John Stover in April of 1980. Stover had been the commanding officer of the U.S. Naval Medical School and, like Osborne, was in the autopsy room during the autopsy.
Lifton says that Stover confirmed Osborne’s assertion that there was a bullet in the autopsy room, saying, “It seems to me that the one they found in Dallas they brought up . . . I think it was in a brown paper envelope” (Lifton, Best Evidence, p.651).
If I can conclude this silly story with one observation over and above the fact that it has been established beyond any reasonable doubt that two large bullet fragments, not a missile or bullet, were found during the autopsy, it would be this.
As set forth in the text, we know that Dr. James Humes and his two fellow autopsy surgeons were completely perplexed over (and made a very big issue out of) the fact that they could not find or figure out what happened to the bullet that entered the upper right part of the president’s back, Humes only determining what happened to it the following morning when he spoke on the phone to Dr. Malcolm Perry.
If, indeed, Drs. Osborne and Stover recall seeing an intact bullet in the autopsy room that night—and if we’re to believe Osborne, he actually held it in his hand—why didn’t either one of them bother to mention this bullet to the three pathologists who were so troubled all evening by its absence? You know, “Dr. Humes? Here’s the bullet you’re looking for.”
placed into a glass jar with a black metal top, and turned over later in the evening to FBI agents for transport to the FBI laboratory.796* (FOOTNOTE)
*No bullet, or significant portion thereof, was found in either Kennedy's or Connally's body.
796. ARRB MD 44, FBI Report of O’Neill and Sibert, November 26, 1963, p.4.
To remove the brain, Humes and Boswell use a scalpel to extend the lacerations of the scalp downward toward the ears. Normally, a saw would be used to cut the skullcap and remove the brain. Here, the damage is so devastating that the doctors can lift the brain out of the head without recourse to a saw. 797
797. 2 H 354, WCT Dr. James J. Humes; ARRB MD 19, Memorandum to File, Andy Purdy, August 17, 1977, p.17; AFIP Record 205-10001-10002, Memorandum, Finck to Blumberg, p.2; also ARRB MD 28; Breo, “JFK’s Death—The Plain Truth from the MDs Who Did the Autopsy,” p.2798.
The left hemisphere of the brain is intact, while the damage to the right one is massive.'"
798. CE 391, 16 H 981, 987.
Just as the brain is fixed in formalin for further study, Lieutenant Colonel Finck walks into the autopsy room
See also.........
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/pdf/HSCA_Vol7_M2_Autopsy.pdf
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/pdf/md66.pdf
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