Was Hickey's AR15 in burst mode?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

   You claim, "I know more than u.....". OK. This is Not the way to sustain a conversation.

I know more than everyone here combined.
But i admit that i can learn something from anyone here on any day, including hopefully u & Dan O'meara.
Which sort of seems to contradict my above wordage (but duznt really).
So, dont let me down.
U have the chance to school me re Holland's problems.

Thats half the reason that i bother to hang around here, to occasionally learn something new.
Why do u hang around?

....................... Stuff that i have learnt here in the past year includes...........
Something hit the fender of Hargis's motorcycle during the shots.
There was a new witness to the Tippit shooting.
The dictabelt is krapp (which i had redd a long time ago, but i had never bothered to read about it in detail).
The motorcade stopped for at least 30 sec on the Stemmons onramp (Officer Brown).
The stoppage on the onramp was confirmed by Hoffman (which proves he was there).
There is youtube of the motorcade halfway between The Trade Mart & Parkland.
JFK's neck wound had been probed (with a long thin metal probe) all the way throo. 
.......................... A while back i learnt that.................
The Z footage shows a piece of skull spinning in midair & falling inside the jfklimo.
A giff of Latimer's test shows how Connally's jacket bulged & how the lapel everted, if the slug firstly passed throo jfk (ie if the slug was tumbling).
Reactions in the Z footage indicate a shot at about pseudo Z125.
The first shot ricocheted off the signal arm (at about pseudo Z105)(Holland).
Hickey accidentally fired the headshot.
etc etc etc

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

We can add Bill Newman to the list of witnesses who mentioned Hickey holding his AR15 before Z313 (the headshot).
This is a first for any forum – Bill has never been mentioned as an AR15 witness, until today.

https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/4645/bill-and-gayle-newman-oral-history?ctx=0c14edb6454afadd18c00ec3ac9d147091716531&idx=1

[18:20][Bill Newman]
………. Well i want to tell u a little trivia if i may…. i recall seeing people with what i want to call a Thompson sub machine gun…. or some type of a rifle about so long [shows about 3ft]…. & it  seemed like it came from the car that was following…. it seemed like they reached behind like the cab of the ? convertible…. u know, they reached into there & came out with a weapon & ran up the grassy knoll…. U FEEL U SAW THIS?.... yes…. but nowhere has this been proved that i'm aware of…. but i had.. i told this to people…. & its been said that the secret service didn’t leave the car…. so maybe it was some other branch of law enforcement…. but i recall what i think…. was about 30yrs ago…. but i recall seeing someone run up the u know with firearms & not a pistol…. something other than a pistol…………….
Bill then mentions the JFK limo slowing… & then mentions a SSA climbing aboard the JFK limo…. & the JFK limo accelerating away.

Bill Newman has clearly erred re a SSA or two running up to the grassy knoll with a machine gun.
But the main thing arising from his wordage is that at least one SSA in Queen Mary picked up a machine gun or similar.
And, clearly, he infers that this picking up of a machine gun happened early on in the saga.  This makes sense. Early on, Bill would be able to see the JFK limo & Queen Mary both approaching – whereas at about Z313 Bill would be looking at JFK, hence Queen Mary (the followup car) & Hickey would be out of his view (ie too far left) -- & after Z313 the JFK limo accelerates ahead leaving Queen Mary momentarily a long long way behind (the Bell film shows Queen Mary  3 lengths behind ie 62ft behind at Z419 which is 5.8 seconds after Z313), so, once again, Bill would not notice Hickey for the first few seconds after Z313 while Bill was focused on JFK, koz Queen Mary is being left well behind.

Bill says that nowhere has this been proved.
Here he probably means that there has been no official mention of a machine gun or machine guns on the grassy knoll.
However, we all know that the existence of or the picking up of an AR15 (or machine gun)(or rifle) by Hickey (or others) was mentioned by a number of witnesses in a number of official sources in November 1963 & in later years.

And we all know that Hickey picked up his AR15 before Z313 koz we all know that SSA Bennett said that after Oswald's shot (this would be Oswald's shot-2 at Z218) Bennett grabbed for the AR15 on the floor & it was not there. 
Anyhow, now we have Bill Newman confirming Bennett's statement re the timing of Hickey picking up his AR15 before Z313 (apart from all of the other such confirmations by others).

bump

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

“Sam Holland originally said the "puff of smoke I saw definitely came from behind the arcade through the trees." In his testimony, Holland said he ran there first: "Went up to behind the arcade as far as you could go."

The "puff of smoke" could be anything. Six months after the events, Holland still wasn't sure: "There was a shot, a report, I don’t know whether it was a shot." By time he met Mark Lane and Josiah Thompson, he was re-enacting a gunman's position behind the fence line.”
Sam Holland is one out what, twenty witnesses, that said the shot came from the grassy knoll, twenty to one aren’t good odds.

“The heads of the two agents in the back seat don't go higher than the heads of the agents on the running boards. Neither agent in the back seat is elevated enough to fire a shot over the Queen Mary windshield. Pat Speer flipped the line drawing of the Hickey shot from the "Mortal Error" book and superimposed it over a Bronson film frame.”

Witnesses to Hickey holding and possibly firing a “rifle”:
•   Dallas Mayor, Earl Cabel. see’s one Secret Service agent standup with a sub-machine gun.
•   Senator Yarbrough also saw a rifle.
•   Agent Winston rides in the front of JFK in the lead car. He noticed Agent Hickey standing up in the follow up car, “I first thought that he had fired it”.
•   Sam Holland, a witness, is standing on top of the underpass as the motorcade is going under him. “After the first shot, the Secret Service agent raised up with a machine gun and dropped back down into the seat. WC Vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 480
•   Roy Kellerman testified there was an AR15 in the motorcade.
•   Hugh Betner saw one Secret Service agent pull out a gun, he was standing watching the motorcade. vol XXIV, ex 2003, pg 200
•   A police officer on the over pass as the motorcade passing under saw an agent swinging around the gun.
•   Margaret Chisolm WC vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 472 saw agents stand up and sit back down.
•   Jean Hill – Saw JFK grab his chest and fall forward and she thinks she saw men in plain clothes shooting back. WC Vol XXIV, Ex 2003, pg 212
•   Ralph Yarborough saw a SS Agent pull out a rifle. WC Vol VII, pg 439

“The Warren Report offers their actual rationale.”

We know what the purpose of the Warren Report was, hide the fact that it was a conspiracy.


"So they wanted it to be known an assassination team took out Kennedy, albeit Keystone-Cops-esque? Or... if the conspirators wanted a lone-assassin subterfuge, they picked a lousy way of accomplishing it."

No, the only shot that missed was the first one, all the others hit a target. I believe they did want it to look like a lone gunman but they had the shooter on the grassy knoll as insurance, he was not getting out of there alive.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2623.msg97780.html#msg97780

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I had made up this list of witnesses awhile back so seeing as we are discussing smelling gunsmoke
Witnesses to smelling gunpowder at street level:
•   Ralph Yarborough was in the car two cars behind the Presidents car and said he smelled gunpowder. He is a war veteran with more than 50 years experience with fire arms. WC Vol VII, pg 439
•   Earl Brown, Dallas Police Patrolman – “Heard shot’s and then smelled gunpowder” WC Vol VI, pg 233
•   Elizabeth Cabell, wife of Dallas mayor, said “acutely aware of the smell of gunpowder”  WC Vol VII, pg 486
•   Billy J. Martin, patrolman - “You could smell the gunpowder… you knew he wasn’t far away. When you’re that close, you can smell the powder burning. Why you—you’ve got to be pretty close to them… you could smell the gunpowder… right there in the street.”
•   Congressman Ray Roberts, seated next to her, had mentioned it also. Same source as Martin
•   Tom C. Dillard, two cars behind the Cabell car, he “. . . very definitely smelled gunpowder when the cars moved up to the corner [of Elm and Houston Streets] Same source as Martin
•   Virgie Rackley stood in front of the depository building close to the street. “She recalled that after the second shot, she smelled gun smoke…” same source as Martin
•   One newspaper summed it up: “. . . seconds later the cavalcade was gone. The area still reeked with the smell of gunpowder.” Same source as Martin

Witnesses to Hickey holding and possibly firing a “rifle”:
•   Dallas Mayor, Earl Cabel. see’s one Secret Service agent standup with a sub-machine gun.
•   Senator Yarbrough also saw a rifle.
•   Agent Winston rides in the front of JFK in the lead car. He noticed Agent Hickey standing up in the follow up car, “I first thought that he had fired it”.
•   Sam Holland, a witness, is standing on top of the underpass as the motorcade is going under him. “After the first shot, the Secret Service agent raised up with a machine gun and dropped back down into the seat. WC Vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 480
•   Roy Kellerman testified there was an AR15 in the motorcade.
•   Hugh Betner saw one Secret Service agent pull out a gun, he was standing watching the motorcade. vol XXIV, ex 2003, pg 200
•   A police officer on the over pass as the motorcade passing under saw an agent swinging around the gun.
•   Margaret Chisolm WC vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 472 saw agents stand up and sit back down.
•   Jean Hill – Saw JFK grab his chest and fall forward and she thinks she saw men in plain clothes shooting back. WC Vol XXIV, Ex 2003, pg 212
•   Ralph Yarborough saw a SS Agent pull out a rifle. WC Vol VII, pg 439

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2524.msg85488.html#msg85488

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I notice that Kellerman says at least two shots... and both Ford and Specter seem to try to lead him into an answer of "two shots." (SEE below)
I think a very good argument could be made here, that the commission was asking leading questions of Kellerman.
"Flurry" means something like sudden heavy activity...
Two is not a flurry...
Specter and Ford were leading the witness...

So, yes... good evidence for a conspiracy... perhaps even at the higher echelons of our government...


Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.


Representative FORD. This is for the second and the third, or the flurry as you described it?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right; that is right, sir.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1059.0.html

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

https://static.lib.virginia.edu/JFK/

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Jean Hill's affidavit stated:

    "I thought I saw some men in plain clothes shooting back but
     everything was such a blur and Mary was pulling on my leg
     saying "Get down thery [sic] are shooting"."

And her testimony:

    "Mary grabbed me and was yelling and I had looked away from
     what was going on here and I thought, because I guess from the
     TV and movies, that it was Secret Service agents shooting back.
     To me, if somebody shoots at somebody they always shoot back
     and so I just thought that that's what it was and I thought, well,
     they are getting him and shooting back, you know; I didn't know."

“Margaret Chisolm – Two men stood up and sat back down”

Senator Yarborough smelled gun powder in Dealey Plaza, & wrote to Earl Warren:

"Immediately after the firing of the first shot, the thought immediately went through my mind that 'that was a rifle shot.' It did not sound to me like a firecracker or a pistol, though I thought of them too, or the possibility of a small bomb. Another immediate impression that I had, was that the cavalcade had slowed down, almost stopped. . . . After the second shot, I could smell gunpowder very strongly and the rancid smell of gunpowder stayed in our nostrils for minutes as we raced toward Parkland Hospital. This caused me some difficulty, as I'd never smelt so much gunpowder from three rifle shots, and I'd begun to think that perhaps someone had thrown a small bomb in the presidential car. . . ." (Letter from Senator Ralph Yarborough to Earl Warren, 12/17/1963)

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Here Holland says that he saw a SSA (Hickey) stand up with a machine gun (AR15), & fall down.
This was after the first shot (of a total of 4 shots) Holland said.
Hickey said that he picked up the AR15 when he was at about the triple underpass.

Here is some more wordage from Holland, supporting that Hickey fired the headshot.
Page 121 of Mortal Error (Menninger & Donahue).