Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?

[Michael T. Griffith]

The evidence points to Helms, Angleton, Phillips, etc. etc.

It's very difficult to "pin the tail on the donkey" in the correct place when you're blindfolded.  There's absolutely no doubt that the donkey needs the tail, but putting it in the right place is impossible when you're blindfolded.   We know that there was a conspiracy behind the murder of JFK.....But we don't know where to pin the responsibility....

It should be obvious that the reason that we are blind is because LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover had control of the investigation.

I would encourage you to read the books I recommended on the RFK assassination. In that case, the evidence pretty clearly indicates that Helms and Angleton were major players.

In the JFK case, the evidence overwhelmingly points in the direction of Helms and Phillips.

I think the evidence that has surfaced from LBJ's taped phone calls indicates that he was not a part of the plot, unless he was a very good actor who was putting on a show in the event that his tapes ever got released.

Another point to consider is that LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

[Walt Cakebread]

I would encourage you to read the books I recommended on the RFK assassination. In that case, the evidence pretty clearly indicates that Helms and Angleton were major players.

In the JFK case, the evidence overwhelmingly points in the direction of Helms and Phillips.

I think the evidence that has surfaced from LBJ's taped phone calls indicates that he was not a part of the plot, unless he was a very good actor who was putting on a show in the event that his tapes ever got released.

Another point to consider is that LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

LBJ learned that Russia had put it's nuclear bombers in the air immediately after the murder of President Kennedy. ( I'm sure that you know that JFK was communicating with Khuershev and Castor outside channels, And Nikita knew that John Kennedy was having trouble keeping the militant militarists at the Pentagon in line.    Many were furious that General Cabell had got the axe after the BOP.   The majority of them old war hawks had thought that JFK should have sent US forces against Castro at the BOP,  and they also thought that JFK should have attacked Russian ships during the missile crisis in the autumn of 62.  And then launched nuclear missiles against Russia. )   

LBJ knew that Russia had the finger on the nuclear trigger.....so he didn't want any hint that the US was going to rashly blame the Russians for the murder of JFK as the old war hawks believed.   LBJ KNEW that the Russians weren't involved.

On Saturday morning 11/23 63 Gordon Shanklin the FBI SAC of the Dallas office told the assembled FBI agents....Quote" Washington does not want any of you to ask questions about the Soviet aspect of this case. Washington was does not want to upset the public"  the referral to "Washington" did not mean FBI headquarters, for Shanklin "Washington" was shorthand for the White House.    Unquote   From FBI agent James Hosty's book Assassignment : Oswald

Please understand that I doubt that the plot to murder JFK originated with LBJ..... But he was privy to the plot, because he had learned of the plot from J. Edgar Hoover, whose FBI agents had uncovered the plot.   Neither Hoover nor LBJ did anything to foil the plot.  They conspired to keep the plot secret and aided and abetted the  plotters .

[Michael T. Griffith]

LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

LBJ learned that Russia had put it's nuclear bombers in the air immediately after the murder of President Kennedy. ( I'm sure that you know that JFK was communicating with Khuershev and Castor outside channels, And Nikita knew that John Kennedy was having trouble keeping the militant militarists at the Pentagon in line.    Many were furious that General Cabell had got the axe after the BOP.   The majority of them old war hawks had thought that JFK should have sent US forces against Castro at the BOP,  and they also thought that JFK should have attacked Russian ships during the missile crisis in the autumn of 62.  And then launched nuclear missiles against Russia. )   

LBJ knew that Russia had the finger on the nuclear trigger.....so he didn't want any hint that the US was going to rashly blame the Russians for the murder of JFK as the old war hawks believed.   LBJ KNEW that the Russians weren't involved.

On Saturday morning 11/23 63 Gordon Shanklin the FBI SAC of the Dallas office told the assembled FBI agents....Quote" Washington does not want any of you to ask questions about the Soviet aspect of this case. Washington was does not want to upset the public"  the referral to "Washington" did not mean FBI headquarters, for Shanklin "Washington" was shorthand for the White House.    Unquote   From FBI agent James Hosty's book Assassignment : Oswald

Please understand that I doubt that the plot to murder JFK originated with LBJ..... But he was privy to the plot, because he had learned of the plot from J. Edgar Hoover, whose FBI agents had uncovered the plot.   Neither Hoover nor LBJ did anything to foil the plot.  They conspired to keep the plot secret and aided and abetted the  plotters.

But the American militarists were thrilled that the Soviets had put nuke bombers in the air, giving them the perfect excuse to launch a full strike on Russia, but LBJ would have none of it.

Also, crucially, LBJ worked mightily to shut down Helms, Scott, etc., from publicly, and even privately, pointing the finger at Castro. Douglass covers this in some detail.

It is clear that the plotters planted evidence pointing to Castro in the hope of using JFK's death as an excuse to topple Castro. But when their media assets barely began to "reveal" this evidence, LBJ stomped down hard and virtually silenced such efforts. LBJ and Hoover also read the riot act to the CIA to stop pushing the narrative that Oswald was a Cuban agent and/or that Castro was behind the assassination.

Again, if LBJ had been part of the plot, he would have done all in his power to push the Helms-Phillips-Scott narrative, but instead he crushed it.

[Walt Cakebread]

But the American militarists were thrilled that the Soviets had put nuke bombers in the air, giving them the perfect excuse to launch a full strike on Russia, but LBJ would have none of it.

Also, crucially, LBJ worked mightily to shut down Helms, Scott, etc., from publicly, and even privately, pointing the finger at Castro. Douglass covers this in some detail.

It is clear that the plotters planted evidence pointing to Castro in the hope of using JFK's death as an excuse to topple Castro. But when their media assets barely began to "reveal" this evidence, LBJ stomped down hard and virtually silenced such efforts. LBJ and Hoover also read the riot act to the CIA to stop pushing the narrative that Oswald was a Cuban agent and/or that Castro was behind the assassination.

Again, if LBJ had been part of the plot, he would have done all in his power to push the Helms-Phillips-Scott narrative, but instead he crushed it.

It is clear that the plotters planted evidence pointing to Castro in the hope of using JFK's death as an excuse to topple Castro.

Absolutely!.....THAT  was the primary reason for the plot.....  The hot headed Cubans who felt betrayed by JFK, after the BOP fiasco wanted the heads of both JFK and Castro.  ( Don't know which one  they hated more)   

Thiers was the plot that the FBI had uncovered .....And Hoover and LBJ aided and abetted.

if LBJ had been part of the plot, he would have done all in his power to push the Helms-Phillips-Scott narrative, but instead he crushed it.

LBJ wasn't part of the plot planning.....But he knew about the plot, and aided the plotters by agreeing to provide cover for the killers if they succeeded and he held the reins of power after the coup d e'tat.    Personally....I believe that LBJ gave to signal to proceed with the ambush after his car turned onto Houston street and he saw something that told him that  everything was ready and set.... and all that was need was his signal to GO.   As soon as LBJ gave the secret signal a large firecracker was set off and that was the signal to the hidden assassins to fire the two shots that each had been given.  I believe there were three shooters with two shots each... and at least one of them who was behind JFK had a silencer equipped weapon.     

[Jon Banks]

The evidence clearly indicates that the men who were the main plotters behind the JFK assassination were rogue high-level elements in the CIA and the military. (The next level or two down from this top brass of plotters included elements of the Mafia, the anti-Castro Cubans, and the Dallas Police Department.)

I think one could make a good argument that the conspirators were sincere patriots who believed JFK was being reckless in his dealings with the Soviet Union, who believed he was going to abandon South Vietnam to the Communists, and who were alarmed by his abandonment of all efforts to overthrow Castro.

I think the plotters also believed that JFK was squandering the opportunity to destroy the Soviet Union once and for all with a nuclear first strike. It is beyond question that elements in the CIA and the military attempted to use the assassination as an excuse to provoke an all-out nuclear attack on Russia.

What about the rule of law and the immorality and illegality of assassinating a sitting president? The plotters believed that JFK's actions and avowed goals justified taking the extraordinary step of assassination. I think one of the main reasons they engaged in such a massive cover-up was to preserve America's image as the world's most stable and noble democratic republic.

I believe that the plotters were sincere patriots, and that in their minds they were acting in the best interests of the country and the world. This is not to exonerate them, but it is to say that they believed they were doing what had to be done to protect and advance America and the cause of freedom around the world.

Allan Dulles built the CIA in his own image and he was an "Ends justify the Means" kind of guy. So if it was an Inside Job, yes, I could see how the plotters convinced themselves that they were doing something good for the country.

The rightwing reactionaries of JFK's era viewed him as "weak" at best and "sympathetic to the Communists" at worst...

[Michael Carney]

I wouldn’t call the people that plotted to kill JFK sincere patriots. Or should I rephrase that, the people that plotted and killed JFK were not patriots.

True, J.E. Hoover and LBJ knew that it was about to happen. Hoover probably knew because he was connected to the mob. He used to go to the race track with Frank Costello. LBJ knew because he had mentioned that all will be good tomorrow to his girlfriend the night before the assassination. Marcello’s territory included Dallas so I am sure there were connections between Marcello and LBJ. I had read somewhere that Marcello was paying LBJ $50k a month when he was in the white house.

Hoover was owned by the mob, they had pictures of Hoover and his boyfriend so he was solidly in the mobs pocket. When I mention the “mob” I specifically mean Carlos Marcello and Santo Trafficante and above them, Frank Costello.

The main reason that the mob did it was because the Kennedy family double crossed the mob. Joseph Kennedy Sr had promised the mob that they would be left alone if they helped get his son, JFK elected president. Once in the white house JFK selects his brother RFK to be attorney general of the US. The mob hated RFK because of how he dragged the mobsters over the coals during the McClellan committee hearings. I think the straw that broke the camel’s back was when RFK had Marcello kidnapped and eventually released him and his lawyer out in a Central American jungle with no food, protection or anything to fend for themselves.

[Michael Davidson]

You might as well say hitler was a sincere patriot ...