The Bus Stop Farce

[Walt Cakebread]

But Frazier didn't identify CE 162 as what LHO was wearing on Thursday afternoon to Irving.

How could he? They never showed CE 162 to him for identification during his testimony.

What I believe happened is that Frazier saw LHO wearing CE 151 on Thursday afternoon and mistakenly thought it was a jacket.

The drive from the TSBD to Irving took at least 20 minutes. Are you really trying to tell me that Frazier would not notice what Oswald, who was sitting next to him, was wearing and would mistake a shirt for a jacket? Really?

And guess what. It appears that William Whaley made a similar mistake. When shown CE 162, he identified it as what LHO was wearing in Whaley's cab on 11/22/63.

Whaley's observation isn't really reliable. He thought Oswald was wearing two jackets (CE 162 and CE 163) when he was wearing none.

Mr. BALL. Here is Commission No. 162 which is a gray jacket with zipper.
Mr. WHALEY. I thank that is the jacket he had on when he rode with me in the cab.
Mr. BALL. Look something like it?
And here is Commission Exhibit No. 163, does this look like anything he had on?
Mr. WHALEY. He had this one on or the other one.
Mr. BALL. That is right.
Mr. WHALEY. That is what I told you I noticed. I told you about the shirt being open, he had on the two jackets with the open shirt.

So much for Whaley's "identification" of CE 162. And you also kinda failed to mention that Whaley also identified CE 150 as the shirt Oswald was wearing, when - according to you he was actually wearing CE 151. I say again; all this shows is that witness observations are not always 100% correct!

Mr. BALL. I have some clothing here. Commission Exhibit No. 150, does that look like the shirt?
Mr. WHALEY. That is the shirt, sir, it has my initials on it.
Mr. BALL. In other words, this is the shirt the man had on?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is the same one the FBI man had me identify.
Mr. BALL. This is the shirt the man had on who took your car at Lamar and Jackson?
Mr. WHALEY. As near as I can recollect as I told him. I said that is the shirt he had on because it had a kind of little stripe in it, light-colored stripe. I noticed that.


Linnie Mae said she remembered the shirt as being solid in color vs the pattern of the shirt LHO was arrested in.

From her testimony it becomes clear she wasn't certain about the shirt at all.

Mr. BALL. How was Lee dressed that morning?
Mrs. RANDLE. He had on a white T-shirt, I just saw him from the waist up, I didn't pay any attention to his pants or anything, when he was going with the package. I was more interested in that. But he had on a white T-shirt and I remember some sort of brown or tan shirt and he had a gray jacket, I believe.
Mr. BALL. A gray jacket. I will show you some clothing here. First, I will show you a gray jacket. Does this look anything like the jacket he had on?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That morning?
Mrs. RANDLE. Similar to that. I didn't pay an awful lot of attention to it.
Mr. BALL. Was it similar in color?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; I think so. It had big sleeves.
Mr. BALL. Take a look at these sleeves. Was it similar in color?
Mrs. RANDLE. I believe so.
Mr. BALL. What is the Commission Exhibit on this jacket?
Mrs. RANDLE. It was gray, I am not sure of the shade.
Mr. BALL. 163.
I will show you another shirt which is Commission No. 150.
Does this look anything like the shirt he had on?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well now, I don't remember it being that shade of brown. It could have been but I was looking through the screen and out the window but I don't remember it being exactly that. I thought it was a solid color.

The WC lawyer only showed her CE 150 (Oswald's arrest shirt), but not CE 151, so all Linnie Mae could provide is a vagie recollection.

Brennan saw a light colored shirt on the shooter.

After checking out the link to the fiber photos, I looked into your claim that matching fibers of both CE 150 and CE 151 were found on the rifle. Your claim was incorrect. The FBI only examined one shirt, they marked as C 11. That same marking is mentioned on all the fiber photos. C 11 became Warren Commission Exhibit 150, the shirt Oswald was arrested in. If Brennan saw the killer wearing a light colored shirt fibers from that shirt should have been on the rifle. They were not.

And Bledsoe saw a ripped sleeve.

Again, Bledsoe saw a damaged sleeve on the shirt Oswald was arrested in. I have already shown you her testimony in which she said they brought the shirt to her home. Here it is again.

Mr. BALL - Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Because they brought it out to the house and showed it.
Mr. BALL - I know. What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I can recognize it.
Mr. BALL - Recognize it as what?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, sir; see there?
Mr. BALL - Yes. You tell me what do you see here? What permits you to recognize it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I recognize---first thing I notice the elbow is out and then I saw---when the man brought it out and let me see it?
Mr. BALL - No, I am talking about---I am showing you this shirt now, and you said, "That is it." You mean---What do you mean by "that is it"?

The question is of course how Bledsoe could have seen the damage of the sleeve on CE 150 on the bus, when Oswald wasn't wearing that shirt that morning?

I have a theory about how Bledsoe became aware of the damage to the sleeve, but I won't bother you with it, at least not for now.

Mr. BALL - Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BMLEDSOE - Because they brought it out to the house and showed it.
Mr. BALL - I know. What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I can recognize it.
Mr. BALL - Recognize it as what?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, sir; see there?
Mr. BALL - Yes. You tell me what do you see here? What permits you to recognize it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I recognize---first thing I notice the elbow is out and then I saw---when the man brought it out and let me see it?
Mr. BALL - No, I am talking about---I am showing you this shirt now, and you said, "That is it." You mean---What do you mean by "that is it"?

The question is of course how Bledsoe could have seen the damage of the sleeve on CE 150 on the bus, when Oswald wasn't wearing that shirt that morning?

How could Lee have removed that shirt in his room and put it in the dresser drawer at 1:00 pm , if he wasn't wearing it???)

I doubt that Mrs Bledsoe saw Lee Oswald on the Mc Watter's bus.....She clearly says that the FBI BROUGHT THE SHIRT ( The shirt from Lee's dresser at the rooming house, NOT the arrest shirt) out to her residence and displayed it to her.

[Bill Chapman]

Mr. BALL - You are indicating a sleeve of a shirt?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - It was unraveled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Was a hole in it

[…]

Mr. BALL - Now, what color shirt did he have on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - He had a brown shirt.
Mr. BALL - And unraveled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Hole in his sleeve right here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Which is the elbow of the sleeve? That is, you pointed to the elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, it is.
Mr. BALL - And that would be which elbow, right or left elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right.

[…]

Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.

[Martin Weidmann]

Mr. BALL - Now, I have got a piece of clothing here, which is marked---
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BMLEDSOE - Because they brought it out to the house and showed it.
Mr. BALL - I know. What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I can recognize it.
Mr. BALL - Recognize it as what?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes, sir; see there?
Mr. BALL - Yes. You tell me what do you see here? What permits you to recognize it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I recognize---first thing I notice the elbow is out and then I saw---when the man brought it out and let me see it?
Mr. BALL - No, I am talking about---I am showing you this shirt now, and you said, "That is it." You mean---What do you mean by "that is it"?

The question is of course how Bledsoe could have seen the damage of the sleeve on CE 150 on the bus, when Oswald wasn't wearing that shirt that morning?

How could Lee have removed that shirt in his room and put it in the dresser drawer at 1:00 pm , if he wasn't wearing it???)

I doubt that Mrs Bledsoe saw Lee Oswald on the Mc Watter's bus.....She clearly says that the FBI BROUGHT THE SHIRT ( The shirt from Lee's dresser at the rooming house, NOT the arrest shirt) out to her residence and displayed it to her.

I have to disagree, Walt. Ball showed her CE 150 which is in fact the arrest shirt. And that was actually the shirt they brought to her home. But you are right, she couldn't have seen the damage to the sleeve of that shirt on the bus, if Oswald was in fact wearing CE 151 that Friday morning. In her affidavit she only says that she saw Oswald get on and off the bus. There is no mention of the damaged sleeve.

However, in her testimony she says this;

Mr. BALL - When did you first notify the police that you believe you'd seen Oswald?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - When I got home, first thing I did I went next door and told them the President had been shot, and he said, "Why, he has got killed." Well, I turned on the radio--television--and we heard ambulances and going around and there was a little boy came in that room in the back and he turned it on, and we listened and hear about the President, only one I was interested in, so, he went on back to work and they kept talking about this boy Oswald and had on a brown shirt, and all of a sudden, well, I declare, I believe that this was this boy, and his name was Oswald---that is---give me his right name, you know, and so, about an hour my son came home, and I told him and he immediately called the police and told them, because we wanted to do all we could, and so, I went down the next night. He took me down, and I made a statement to them, what kind of---Secret Service man or something down there.
Mr. BALL - Where?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - At the police station.
Mr. BALL - Uh-huh. Now, did you ever see Oswald in a lineup?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - Never did see Oswald after he was arrested?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Not after he got off the bus; no.
Mr. BALL - But, you looked at the pictures of Oswald?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Showed you the pictures of Oswald?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - The man down at the police station, he had a picture of him with a gun, and said, "Do you recognize him?"
And I said, "Yes; it is Oswald." That is the one that I remember him.

It is somewhat convoluted, but I believe she is saying that she actually recognized Oswald by his name, which was mentioned on the television or radio. She then went down to the police station, where she was shown pictures of Oswald, and that's where she saw the brown shirt (with the damaged sleeve) he was arrested in.

After officers brought the arrest shirt to her home, prior to her testimony, she mixed the identification of Oswald by name with her seeing the damaged sleeve at her home into one (false) recollection of seeing the damaged sleeve on the bus.

[Charles Collins]

I believe that Frazier was shown CE 162 but am not able to look into it right now.

Well, I did check his entire testimony and CE 162 is not mentioned anywhere. It's one of the reasons why I doubt the WC's actions and findings.

They did a similar thing with Tomlinson. They had a perfect opportunity to get an identification of the bullet now in evidence as CE 399 from the man who actually found it and they never showed it to him when he testified. If fact, they only introduced the bullet into evidence after Tomlinson gave his testimony. And there are more examples of where the WC dropped the ball, either on purpose or due to sheer incompetence.


Did you look at the table of contents description? It says CE 151. Could be a typographical error.

Yes, it does say CE 151, but on the photos themselves all it says is C-11 (which later became CE 150). A typographical error is indeed the most likely explanation.

Well, I did check his entire testimony and CE 162 is not mentioned anywhere. It's one of the reasons why I doubt the WC's actions and findings.


Did you happen to look at 2H238?

Mr. Ball. Commission Exhibit 162, which can be described for the record as a gray jacket with zipper, have you seen Lee Oswald wear this jacket?
Mr. Frazier. No sir; I haven’t.


Now it doesn’t appear that Frazier was shown CE 151. And that is unfortunate.

[Bill Chapman]

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe, w/f 67, 621 N. Marsalis, Dallas, Texas, Telephone WH2-1985 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Last Friday, November 22, 1963, I went downtown to see the President. I stood on Main Street just across the street from Titche's until the parade passed by. The I walked over to Elm Street and caught a bus to go home. The bus traveled West on Elm Street to about Murphy Street and made a stop and that is when I saw Lee Oswald get on the bus. The traffic was heavy and it took quite sometime [sic] to travel two or three blocks. During that time someone made the statement that the President had been shot and while the bus was stopped due to the heavy traffic, Oswald got off the bus and I didn't see him again. I know this man was Lee Oswald because he lived in my home from October 7, 1963 to October 14, 1963.

/s/ Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 23rd DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Patsy Collins
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

----------------
TO ONE & ALL
----------------
Affidavits are not Q&A sessions
They usually turn out to be shorthand
versions of upcoming testimony:
A quick sketch, a snapshot, of the overall
picture.. with details to be fleshed out later.

[Charles Collins]

I believe that Frazier was shown CE 162 but am not able to look into it right now.

Well, I did check his entire testimony and CE 162 is not mentioned anywhere. It's one of the reasons why I doubt the WC's actions and findings.

They did a similar thing with Tomlinson. They had a perfect opportunity to get an identification of the bullet now in evidence as CE 399 from the man who actually found it and they never showed it to him when he testified. If fact, they only introduced the bullet into evidence after Tomlinson gave his testimony. And there are more examples of where the WC dropped the ball, either on purpose or due to sheer incompetence.


Did you look at the table of contents description? It says CE 151. Could be a typographical error.

Yes, it does say CE 151, but on the photos themselves all it says is C-11 (which later became CE 150). A typographical error is indeed the most likely explanation.

Yes, it does say CE 151, but on the photos themselves all it says is C-11 (which later became CE 150). A typographical error is indeed the most likely explanation.

Unless you have more evidence than what we can see in the WC document, I submit that it is no more likely than the wrong item number being on the photo. The two shirts in question are still in evidence in the archives. So, there is a way to test them again and compare them to the photos.

[Martin Weidmann]

Well, I did check his entire testimony and CE 162 is not mentioned anywhere. It's one of the reasons why I doubt the WC's actions and findings.

Did you happen to look at 2H238?

Mr. Ball. Commission Exhibit 162, which can be described for the record as a gray jacket with zipper, have you seen Lee Oswald wear this jacket?
Mr. Frazier. No sir; I haven’t.

Now it doesn’t appear that Frazier was shown CE 151. And that is unfortunate.

This is weird. I am using Frazier's testimony on McAdams' site, which is supposed to be verbatim.
However, if you do a page search for 162 nothing comes up but 163 does.....

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm

Is McAdams site not complete?